Track pad advice please

[BMWZ4MC]

I'm currently running EBC yellowstuff pads and DOT 4 fluid, but an otherwise OEM brake set up. I spent last Friday on a track day in 28 C heat and found the brakes to be exceptionally good with no fade at all and consistently predictable pedal feel...

However, when I changed my track wheels back to my CSLs I found that what had been practically new pads had all but disappeared. What remained of the pads had clearly melted on their surface and the pads will need to be replaced in the next couple of weeks before I go back on the track again. Also, they are now pretty noisy even with gentle driving.

With my previous set of yellowstuff pads I noticed that they started to break up by the end of a track day, although they continued to work well and I was able to drive home. I had put this down to them overheating to the point of smoking after I'd left the DSC switched on for my first three hot laps on an unfamiliar track.

Although I can't fault their braking capabilities, I'm now starting to wonder about the longevity of yellowstuff pads. At £150-200 a set, I cannot justify a set of pads per trackday, and I don't really want to spend many hundreds of pounds on Pagid pads. In an ideal world I would just get a BBK, but unfortunately at the moment I don't have time to go down that road.

What do you guys recommend as a high performance pad for fast trackdays? I'm not worried about dust production, noisy brakes, or even R90 approval - what I want is a pad with longevity, stopping performance from very high speeds, and better wear characteristics than yellowstuff. I suppose it's also important for them to work from cold on the road so I don't crash in traffic jams

I've considered EBC bluestuff, but the reviews on other fora seem a bit mixed (these I found by googling EBC bluestuff, and most of the reviews were from Subura drivers - those with four pot setups found they would overheat, whilst with six pots they were well liked). I'm pretty experienced on the track, but I can get a mite carried away expecting my ///M to brake and corner as well as my Westfield, so I'm sure I'm harsh on pads...

Thanks guys

 

[mmm-five]

You must be very heavy on the brakes, or taking it a couple of tenths harder than I do on track

My Yellowstuffs lasted over 30,000 miles including a few UK trackdays, and 2 25+ lap 'Ring trips.

I've since switched to Bluestuff NDX (the NDX is important as it's the new formulation brought out a couple of year ago) as I was assured by EBC technical dept that they perform better & for longer than the Yellows.

There's also the Orangestuff pads, but these are marketed as a pure race pad, and might not offer any retardation until they're hot.

 

[ChawenHalo]

I'm a complete numpty on the track and a bigginer so my advice is worth what it is(therefore leave DCT on often and just try not to trigger it) and in all honesty whilst I really wanted an APR BBK i've done the followiong on a resonable budget and am really pleased with the results:

New disks (cooked the previous ones)
Pagid RS 29 (not THAT expensive, they're a good endurance pad so not so hard on the disks apparently)
Goodridge hoses (€300.00 including DOT 5 and fitting).

Downside is that the Pagid are bloody noisy dirty so and sos, but they heat up quickly and are fine for road use. Great when hot, ;lots of feeln in the pedal and consistent.

Lots of people use Pagid blue which are quiter.

Will let you know how well they last but the garage I use have fitted them to 1 GT2; 1 GT2RS and at least 3 monstered up 997 turbos (620 Bhp) and these are no flighweights. So they must last well.

In fact one of these guiys with the GT2 had got rid of the ceramic discks set up and gone conventional with those pads.

Hope it helps.

 

[exdos]

I'm currently running EBC yellowstuff pads and DOT 4 fluid, but an otherwise OEM brake set up. I spent last Friday on a track day in 28 C heat and found the brakes to be exceptionally good with no fade at all and consistently predictable pedal feel...

I think you had a bad batch of Yellowstuffs. I've heard of this problem with them before. I would complain to EBC and return them the pads if they request.

I've got Yellowstuffs on my Z3MC and they've been great. I also have braided hoses, DOT 5.1 fluid and auxiliary brake cooling ducts, which I think are the most important element of upgrading brakes. Apparently providing brake ducting is equivalent to having brake disks which are 2" greater diameter in respect of heat dissipation.

I did a full day at Spa and the following day at The Ring last September in similar temperature with no problems.

 

[Lower]

The same brand and type of pad seem to perform completely differently on different types of cars.

I'd go with a recommendation of what people have used and found successful on the Z4M rather than Porcshes, Subarus etc.

Brake cooling is very important to the longevity of the pads, as is bedding in.

If you don't bed the pads in properly the pads will disintegrate or wear extremely quickly.

 

[ga41]

Won't do any harm contacting EBC as exdos said. At the least you'll know if they're a bad batch and so can buy confidently again.

 

[kappa88]

I just installe a set of yellowstuff on my M but haven't tested them on the track yet.
But I've used them on my previous car (nissan 350z) for 3 years for advanced track days and I always liked them. I've always abused my brakes on the track and they would last at least 3 track days (one a month + daily driving and occasional mountain pass in between).
I'll be on the track in a couple of weeks, then I'll be able to report back how they did.
Ciao

 

[VvrooomM]

I have yellow also, fast road driving only at moment. Not sure when and if I'll get on a track. I heard mixed reviews before installing but put the problems down to earlier compounds.


Tapatalking on my iPad.......

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Thanks for all your comments chaps

You must be very heavy on the brakes, or taking it a couple of tenths harder than I do on track

My Yellowstuffs lasted over 30,000 miles including a few UK trackdays, and 2 25+ lap 'Ring trips.

I must say I've never had a set of pads behave like this before, usually they last several tens of thousands of miles even with my lead feet!

I've since switched to Bluestuff NDX (the NDX is important as it's the new formulation brought out a couple of year ago) as I was assured by EBC technical dept that they perform better & for longer than the Yellows.

There's also the Orangestuff pads, but these are marketed as a pure race pad, and might not offer any retardation until they're hot.

I read about both of these on the EBC site. Have you properly tested the bluesyuff on track yet, and are they up to the task? As for orangestuff, I'm not sure they'll work until they're hot so probably not safe on the road.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I'm a complete numpty on the track and a bigginer so my advice is worth what it is(therefore leave DCT on often and just try not to trigger it) and in all honesty whilst I really wanted an APR BBK i've done the followiong on a resonable budget and am really pleased with the results:

New disks (cooked the previous ones)
Pagid RS 29 (not THAT expensive, they're a good endurance pad so not so hard on the disks apparently)
Goodridge hoses (€300.00 including DOT 5 and fitting).

Downside is that the Pagid are bloody noisy dirty so and sos, but they heat up quickly and are fine for road use. Great when hot, ;lots of feeln in the pedal and consistent.

Lots of people use Pagid blue which are quiter.

Will let you know how well they last but the garage I use have fitted them to 1 GT2; 1 GT2RS and at least 3 monstered up 997 turbos (620 Bhp) and these are no flighweights. So they must last well.

In fact one of these guiys with the GT2 had got rid of the ceramic discks set up and gone conventional with those pads.

Hope it helps.

You should try stretching your limits a little on a safe track with DSC off...you'll never want to switch it on again
Pagids will be a last resort for me as they're really expensive in the UK compared with other pads. If I can't find a pad at a reasonable price that works for me, I think I'll end up going for a BBK (where I probably will have to buy Pagids or similar :roll: )

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I think you had a bad batch of Yellowstuffs. I've heard of this problem with them before. I would complain to EBC and return them the pads if they request.

I've got Yellowstuffs on my Z3MC and they've been great. I also have braided hoses, DOT 5.1 fluid and auxiliary brake cooling ducts, which I think are the most important element of upgrading brakes. Apparently providing brake ducting is equivalent to having brake disks which are 2" greater diameter in respect of heat dissipation.

I did a full day at Spa and the following day at The Ring last September in similar temperature with no problems.

Hi Exdos, hope your ///Modding is still going well? It's been a while since I've seen one of your posts...

I think I'll contact EBC as you suggest as I'd be very surprised if a single track day would be sufficient to consume a new set of pads, no matter how hard I might drive. In retrospect, I remember finding this set of pads to be somewhat poor after the inital bedding in process, less good in fact than the worn set I removed. I distinctly recall a brown-pants moment on the A3 not long after fitting them

 

[mmm-five]

Have you properly tested the bluesyuff on track yet, and are they up to the task? As for orangestuff, I'm not sure they'll work until they're hot so probably not safe on the road.

Only done one 'Ring trip (which is not a heavy-braking test anyway) and about 4,000 road miles on them so far.

Have found them to be much better than the Yellows once warmed up - although they do work from cold, albeit not as well as when they're warm/hot (1 application makes them warm enough).

Not had any fade so far either, but I only do a max of 3 'Ring laps at a time.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

The same brand and type of pad seem to perform completely differently on different types of cars.

I'd go with a recommendation of what people have used and found successful on the Z4M rather than Porcshes, Subarus etc.

Brake cooling is very important to the longevity of the pads, as is bedding in.

If you don't bed the pads in properly the pads will disintegrate or wear extremely quickly.

The problem I've had trying to find reviews of pads is that our car is pretty rare so there are few Z4Ms being tracked and even fewer people discussing the performance of their pads.

I always make my first lap a gentle one, progressively increasing speed as the brakes, tyres, driver etc warm up. I also limit my number of laps and make my last full lap a warm down lap with no more than 2/3rd max rpm and only gentle braking. I didn't experience any symptoms that might suggest the brakes were over heating, and they performed really well throughout the day. It's really just the rapid wear rate that concerns me.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Have you properly tested the bluesyuff on track yet, and are they up to the task? As for orangestuff, I'm not sure they'll work until they're hot so probably not safe on the road.

Only done one 'Ring trip (which is not a heavy-braking test anyway) and about 4,000 road miles on them so far.

Have found them to be much better than the Yellows once warmed up - although they do work from cold, albeit not as well as when they're warm/hot (1 application makes them warm enough).

Not had any fade so far either, but I only do a max of 3 'Ring laps at a time.

Three ring laps is still 40 miles of hard driving in one go though! Typically I would cover between 10 and 25 miles on a track then let the car cool down. That said, the kind of tracks I use have lots of tight corners then short or medium straights, with few long sections were the brakes can cool.

I'm seriously considering trying the bluestuff as I have another track day very soon and need a quick solution...unless anyone else has the panacea I'm seeking!

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Won't do any harm contacting EBC as exdos said. At the least you'll know if they're a bad batch and so can buy confidently again.

I think I shall... Have you had pads behave like this in the high temps of Cyprus?

I just installe a set of yellowstuff on my M but haven't tested them on the track yet.
But I've used them on my previous car (nissan 350z) for 3 years for advanced track days and I always liked them. I've always abused my brakes on the track and they would last at least 3 track days (one a month + daily driving and occasional mountain pass in between).
I'll be on the track in a couple of weeks, then I'll be able to report back how they did.
Ciao

What you describe is what I normally expect from a set of pads

I have yellow also, fast road driving only at moment. Not sure when and if I'll get on a track. I heard mixed reviews before installing but put the problems down to earlier compounds.

I've seen lots of references to older yellowstuff pads overheating and fading, but I too thought that had been rectified

 

[ga41]

Not to that extend. Before installing my BBK i had Stoptech Street Performance pads and when i checked them afterwards only about 1/4 or a 1/3 of them had worn off and a chunk or two from the edges, say about 1-2cm length. I had driven these very hard though both on the road and on our local track.. I still rate them though. They stopped well and i never experienced pad fade, only fluid boil. In fact my BBK now (also Stoptech) has those same pad compound on and i was extremely happy with the setup on my latest track outing. No fade at all, either fluid or otherwise.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Thanks ga, I'll have a look at stoptech too

 

[ga41]

No worries. If you can get them cheap give them a try. They're imported from the States though so may not be as cheap as EBC for instance. As far as actual stopping power i reckon they should be the equivalent of Yellowstuff, fast road/mild track.

 

[kappa88]

I just installe a set of yellowstuff on my M but haven't tested them on the track yet.
But I've used them on my previous car (nissan 350z) for 3 years for advanced track days and I always liked them. I've always abused my brakes on the track and they would last at least 3 track days (one a month + daily driving and occasional mountain pass in between).
I'll be on the track in a couple of weeks, then I'll be able to report back how they did.
Ciao

What you describe is what I normally expect from a set of pads

In short, what I meant is that for the money they are very good all-rounders. No real need to warm them up, no fade or problems on the track.
They didn't last that long, but as I said above I really use 100% of what the brakes have to offer when tracking using semi-slicks (so grip on braking has never been a problem).
Also the 350z was a heavier car than the z4, the yellowstuff will probably last a bit longer on the BMW.

I've tried a couple of other options in the last 3 years, but never found anything that worked quite as well. They either couldn't stand track temperatures and abuse, or were too aggressive and cook the discs.

Quite curious about the bluestuff and the orangestuff. Wound mind trying them when I run out of my current pads.

 

[exdos]

Pagids will be a last resort for me as they're really expensive in the UK compared with other pads. If I can't find a pad at a reasonable price that works for me, I think I'll end up going for a BBK (where I probably will have to buy Pagids or similar :roll: )

I have heard rave reviews of Carbon Lorraine pads on track but they're not the cheapest: http://www.carbonelorrainebraking.co.uk/

Is the real benefit of the BBKs that only the expensive/best pads will fit?