UK Budget

[IK.]

As with Gannet's other half, I'm now going to be worse off, even though I'm not much over the £21,000 mark. That coupled with the threat of making the NHS pension EVEN WORSE is enough for me to start looking elsewhere for a job. The difference in pay in the private sector for my line of work would ease my pain.

Don't forget the £1000 tax free additional will save £200 in your case, so that is an implied increase ...

The car must take a big whack out of your salary though!

But everyone gets that tax free allowance, so I'm still worse off.

I'm not sure if that means I just don't get my inflationary rise or if it means I can't go up the normal pay scales either, within the NHS. Anyone know? If it's the latter, then I'll definitely have to look around, as I'm already underpaid for what I do (but thought the NHS would offer 'job security').

As for the car... No? The car is owned outright, so none of the car comes out of my salary... Well, except fuel, servicing, etc. I do live in a house only worth £50k though

 

[pvr]

If we generalise, i.e. not you specific of course, this article seems to disagree:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7835366/Public-sector-pay-conditions-outstrip-private-sector-report-says.html

 

[chrishandscombe]

its always been the same

labour - working class
conservs - middle class
and the rich? well your in a league of your own!!

It doesnt really matter to the mps earning 65k+ per year! i work in the public sector (emergency services is all im going to say)
and i can live with the pay freeze for two years (lets be honest, we all like more money but a pay rise will only make you want more)
but reducing my pension no. the state pension is pittance so my own is far healthier and to have it taken away makes me not want to do the job i do. People who work for the country whether is hm forces/emergency services - keeping it safe and secure shouldnt have pension cuts :thumbsdown:

armed forces should have unlimited access to cash to do the jobs they do safely instead of using out of date equipment.

i think they should of left everything how it is and simply put a decifit tax £5-10 per month (depending on earnings) and that money goes into clearing the decifit
30 million workers at £10 a month = 300,000 million squid!!!! much better then arse raping us with more vat increases!!

providing ive got the zed. im happy :driving:

 

[original guvnor]

its always been the same

labour - working class
conservs - middle class
and the rich? well your in a league of your own!!

It doesnt really matter to the mps earning 65k+ per year! i work in the public sector (emergency services is all im going to say)
and i can live with the pay freeze for two years (lets be honest, we all like more money but a pay rise will only make you want more)
but reducing my pension no. the state pension is pittance so my own is far healthier and to have it taken away makes me not want to do the job i do. People who work for the country whether is hm forces/emergency services - keeping it safe and secure shouldnt have pension cuts :thumbsdown:

armed forces should have unlimited access to cash to do the jobs they do safely instead of using out of date equipment.

i think they should of left everything how it is and simply put a decifit tax £5-10 per month (depending on earnings) and that money goes into clearing the decifit
30 million workers at £10 a month = 300,000 million squid!!!! much better then arse raping us with more vat increases!!

providing ive got the zed. im happy :driving:

Chris,

I hate the reference to 'class' in this day and age. Most of us are 'working class' because that means we work long hard hours to pay our bills, mortgages etc. The people on higher incomes are no different, your standard of living just adjusts to your wage. We are all just trying to do the best we can for ourselves and our families.

As for the pensions - it was always coming, you're just catching up with us in the private sector. In the last 2 years my final salary pension which I'd had for 12 years has closed and I'm being moved on to Defined Contribution from Defined Benefit. We've also had 15-20% salary cuts, redundancies and I'm in the second year of a wage freeze. Lets face it recession or no recession the taxpayer cannot afford the public sector pension scheme any longer and it cannot afford the 1m extra public sector jobs created under Labour.

If I had a £1 for everytime I'd seen public sector staff (NHS managers etc) travelling the length and breadth of the country in first class rail carriages (paid by me and everyone else on here) I could've bought another car. It had to stop. It's a very good budget and consumer confidence will start to increase now because someone is actually taking action to sort the economy out at last.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Loving the freezing of public sector pay for anyone over 21k. About time they got a shake up, now their pensions reduced and we are making progress

Im obviously not quite so convinced on this... :headbang: Plus I dont remember getting a pay rise last year anyway...

And since two years ago the NHS pension is no longer based on final salary so it has already been cut dramatically...

THE benefit system needs a complete overhaul - definitely a place to make significant savings

The final salary pension scheme still exists (unless you opted out), and is determined as an x/40 proportion of your salary in your final year working in the NHS. In other words, if you work for 40 years in the NHS you are entitled to your entire pension, with those working fewer years being remunerated on a pro rata basis. April 2007 saw the final opportunity for those already in the NHS pension scheme to buy "extra years". Personally, I bought five extra years so I can retire five years early without reducing my pension. There can be no arguement that the NHS offers an excellent pension scheme, and one that you will struggle to match elsewhere, so Dr Nick, I hope you haven't opted out.

During the recession, the private sector has been hurt a lot. Not only no pay increases, but actual reductions (my turnover / profit went down by about 15 - 20%). The public sector was immune to that and still got increases. The balance had to be readjusted as the gap became just a joke between private and public sector.

There will always be tensions between the pay in public vs private sector - the gap can be seen from both angles - look at the difference in ceiling or earnings between the two for example.... :fuelfire:

We all make our choices though....

A far better arguement to support the poor old NHS doc is that in real terms our salary has decreased year on year for the last few years as a consequence of the European Working Time Directive. During the boom years for the private sector, we were getting poorer and poorer (and less training), so obviously we should be the first people to have their salary frozen!

Dr Nick, have you calculated your hourly salary when you are on call? Personally, after 14 years of hard work, and paying thousands of pounds from my salary to further my training, I find myself being paid £7.54 per hour when I'm on call.

Of course, I love my job and I would not want to work in any other profession. I have great sympathy for people who are facing unemployment, and who have worked hard and invested greatly of themselves in businesses which now have uncertain futures, but I can't help feeling that there are other people within the NHS, and elsewhere in the public and private sectors who should be first against the wall... not to mention those at the feet of whom responsibilty actually lies for the mess in which we fester!

 

[pvr]

Do I assume you disagree with the news paper article quoted above?

 

[DrNick]

So eloquently put BMWZ4MC, but with regards my pension, im only an F2 and August 2008 when i started work was the first month that new entrants into the NHS pension scheme were no longer finally salary...thats what I understand anyway... my counterparts who I started med school with who did not do the extra year for the BSc and started F1 in 2007 are all in a final salary pension.

And no, I never work out my hourly rate...its just too depressing!!

Doing ATLS course from tomorrow...£650 out of my taxed income...another contentious point!

BTW always nice to find another medic with such great taste in cars....!

 

[pvr]

Bit confusing though, wasn't there the issue with GPs under labour tripling their salary and halving their workload (i.e. 9 - 5 only, no weekends etc)?

I assume you guys are not GPs then ...

 

[mikedav]

i
30 million workers at £10 a month = 300,000 million squid!!!! much better then arse raping us with more vat increases!!

£3.6bn a year....we need to save more like £20-£30bn as a starting point....

We have virtually the lowest rate of VAT in Europe - everyone else is paying 19-25% already - so it was bound to go up. It'll add a (badly needed) £12 billion towards the deficit and cost us £2.50 in every £120 we spend. That £960 TV is now £980. Not that bad?

Don't forget VAT exempt items include food, kids clothes and other essentials....

Dr Nick, have you calculated your hourly salary when you are on call? Personally, after 14 years of hard work, and paying thousands of pounds from my salary to further my training, I find myself being paid £7.54 per hour when I'm on call.

Fair enough but what's your annual take home salary? That's private, of course, I'm just saying that some might argue being on standby in case you are needed is the 'downside' to a highly regarded, professional career? I know private sector workers who do extra hours, 80 hours a week or are on call for no extra money at all, simply because the role demands it.

Just playing devils advocate here before all the doctors try to lynch me

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Do I assume you disagree with the news paper article quoted above?

Assuming the research is sound, then it's reasonable to take the findings as being correct. However, I think that it is somewhat misleading to assume that public sector workers form a single generic cohort, and that this is directly comparable with private sector workers.
Undoubtedly, within the public sector there are people who are hugely overpaid, and the justification offered for this is that this is the only way to attract highly adept and qualified people into the public sector from the private sector. There are other groups who feel the need to hold the public to ransom for salary increases in the face of massive public debt (although such people can be found within the private sector too). Whilst I do not disagree that these are areas that need to be addressed, I find it somewhat naive (or is it disingenuous) to group a nurse earning £15,000 pa in the same group as a £150 pa hospital manager, and flag this up as "public sector workers" who are overpaid. It would be similar to me labelling a McDonald's employee and the CEO of BP as "private sector workers".

The article is interesting but should be taken at face value. After all, it is intended to sell copies of The Telegraph firstly, and inform only as a secondary goal!

 

[pvr]

That's ok, we will get a German locum to help you

 

[BMWZ4MC]

So eloquently put BMWZ4MC, but with regards my pension, im only an F2 and August 2008 when i started work was the first month that new
entrants into the NHS pension scheme were no longer finally salary...thats what I understand anyway... my counterparts who I started med school with who did not do the extra year for the BSc and started F1 in 2007 are all in a final salary pension.

Bugger!

BTW always nice to find another medic with such great taste in cars....!

There's Jimmypop too...

 

[Wondermike]

DrNick and the other medical guys, one of the things about your job is that you're doing a good thing, helping people, saving lives, not sure what you specialise in?

I work in construction which is an aggressive, dog-eat-dog slog :headbang:

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Bit confusing though, wasn't there the issue with GPs under labour tripling their salary and halving their workload (i.e. 9 - 5 only, no weekends etc)?

I assume you guys are not GPs then ...

We don't like talk about GPs! They negotiated their own contracts, effectively acting as small businesses with licences to manufacture Mercedes, golf clubs, and country houses!

 

[DrNick]

being on standby in case you are needed

being on call is not meant in that way anymore - being on call means you are working non-stop covering a patient load that is normally covered by multiple times more people in normal working hours...

highly regarded, professional career

those days have gone too...!!!

doctors try to lynch me

we are all too nice for that.... its good to have healthy open debate... all here seem educated individuals from all kinds of backgrounds ...nobody (I hope) takes offence

 

[DrNick]

There's Jimmypop too...

yes I sold him my wind deflector!

 

[DrNick]

We don't like talk about GPs! They negotiated their own contracts, effectively acting as small businesses with licences to manufacture Mercedes, golf clubs, and country houses!

agreed!!! Although please pvr, dont read what you believe in the daily mail!

 

[pvr]

We don't like talk about GPs! They negotiated their own contracts, effectively acting as small businesses with licences to manufacture Mercedes, golf clubs, and country houses!

agreed!!! Although please pvr, dont read what you believe in the daily mail!

Did you mean to say that or did you mean "believe what you read"

 

[DrNick]

Did you mean to say that or did you mean "believe what you read"

:rofl: and you lot trust us with your lives.... :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

 

[pvr]

Nah, we go private oke: