NO LONGER NEEDED D
- Thread starter Noofster
- Start date
Bromley
derin100
Active member
Because, like it or not, over the past year the number of people looking for 3.0Si (and consequently their prices) have significantly increased! This is due to increased interest particularly due to certain videos, on certain influential YouTube channels.
‘Fashions’ for certain cars or models can suddenly change and, at present, the E85/E86 3.0Si is ‘flavour of the month’. Therefore, it is a desirable and sought after model….hence, it’s price has gone up. That’s how the classic car market works!
Yet again on this forum, it is the same old people talking down the value of someone else’s car!
A car that they themselves have ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of buying themselves. Yet, they see fit to (publicly) undermine and blight someone else’s advert.
It is quite extraordinary how this happens on this forum. They seem to be able to stop themselves for a couple of days or adverts…but then, they just can’t help themselves and start it all over again!
This is someone else’s car advert, in the ‘FOR SALE’ section of the forum. They are trying to sell a car. They are NOT ASKING FOR YOUR OPINION OR ADVICE.
If you don’t like something about their car, or you don’t like their asking price, or you don’t like the fact that they feel that “they are not in any hurry to sell and are prepared to keep their car at a higher price and waiting for that one buyer who really wants their particular car”, that may well be the case and your opinion. But, not every opinion that you hold needs to be publicly vocalised, just as not everything you think necessarily needs to come out of your mouth.
It is, however, completely inappropriate and unnecessary to blight that person’s ADVERT AND CAR by publicly ‘vocalising’ the things that you don’t like about their car or advert or price.
Well said!! Couldn’t agree more!!
Forums seem to be like this - putting a dampener on prices. I don’t know why unless people on the forums actively want to buy at a lower cost - but we all seem to have cars already. When I bought my NSX in 2005 I paid £30k. A lot of money. People on the forum were actively waiting for prices to fall to less than £15k. They waited. It never happened. My car is now (currently because it’s come of age) worth six figures (one previous owner, 14000 miles etc). But in 20 years it may be worth nothing. As Derin says it’s fashion and supply and demand. It fluctuates.
At the summit of the picturesque fens
Personally is think that is all nonsense. For starters the E85/6 is NOT a classic car (yet). They may be one day, but not yet.
And any car which has been well used with near 100k miles is NEVER going to be a valuable 'classic'. That just isn't the way the classic car market works.
The used car market is on it's arse, due to many global factors out of our control. There are loads of E85s, E86s and E89s advertised which just aren't shifting. So 'flavour of the month' is a bit rich.
I don't know about anybody else but I 'chime in' on for sale ads when I see people being unrealistic. I am trying to help, as I have lost count of the number of cars advertised on here that just don't sell for the prices asked (anywhere) because the sellers are deluded. I also spend far too much time trawling cars for sale so know a bit about their prices and whether they sell or not. Not specifically E85/6s but it's a general market, so affects everything to one degree or another.
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I think it all depends on what your definition of classic is. I would agree that boggo high mileage E85s are not; they are just old motors. But Z3s are now finding their feet. They will never make money but 2.8/3.0s are now sought after in good order. It will hapoen to E85/86 soon enough not least because these sorts of cars are never going to be produced again. Okay I also accept that the customers for these might also die off in a similar time scale (I am 65 and only look at cars post made in 2000) and I dare say younger people won’t give a flying f**k about cars in the future because the roads are so dire. But we aren’t there yet. And decent cars in decent condition will always sell for a reasonable amount. Indeed it seems as though Z4MCs are increasing in price for lowish mileage examples. So it’s not all downwards. And there are still people with money.
According to most on eBay, it is anything over 10 years old. The words 'classic' and 'knackered old POS' seem to intertwine when it comes to selling cars.
And EVERYTHING is a 'future classic' according to many (only when they are selling though).
To be fair, this is a forum, not Autotrader, so comments are a part of the deal.
Bearing in mind that this is priced the same as another that has done half the mileage, and priced at 77% more than another one with almost identical mileage... I'd say it's not surprising that some feel it's overpriced.
Preventative maintenance and modifications/enhancements are great, but they don't actually add that much value to the car when it comes to selling. I currently have my Yeti up for sale with all the preventative maintenance, higher quality consumables than probably any other Yeti for sale, but it's still the cheapest one out there and I'm sure it will not be a quick sale.
Model + year + mileage = value. That's the equation 99% of people work with, whether right or not. Sometimes you can add "- modifications" into the formula as well, even if they're tasteful, well-considered and make the car objectively better.
Bearing in mind that this is priced the same as another that has done half the mileage, and priced at 77% more than another one with almost identical mileage... I'd say it's not surprising that some feel it's overpriced.
Preventative maintenance and modifications/enhancements are great, but they don't actually add that much value to the car when it comes to selling. I currently have my Yeti up for sale with all the preventative maintenance, higher quality consumables than probably any other Yeti for sale, but it's still the cheapest one out there and I'm sure it will not be a quick sale.
Model + year + mileage = value. That's the equation 99% of people work with, whether right or not. Sometimes you can add "- modifications" into the formula as well, even if they're tasteful, well-considered and make the car objectively better.
Exactly. It's completely free to advertise for anyone (long term, short term or half an hour-old member).
I have noticed that people with a track record on the forum will get a far easier time when selling their cars than someone who obviously just signed up for a free ad to a captive market.
For what it's worth, my last car was a Cayman, and it was absolutely fantastic in every way. Easily the best car I am ever likely to own, stunning to look at, beautifully built, and an absolute dream to drive. If it wasn't for the fact that I had to surrender my driving licence for 12 months due to a medical issue, I would have kept it (also, it was bought using all of my inheritance when my Dad passed away, so it had a lot of sentimental value to me).
Good luck with the sale of your car mate
derin100
Active member
I’m sorry and disappointed that you think that what I wrote is all “nonsense”. Clearly, quite a number of others disagree with your opinion on that.
You clearly haven’t understood or are choosing (obtusely) not to understand. And, we can all guess why that is!
For a start, I used the term ‘classic car’ loosely in this context and refer to what might be classified as “cars of a certain special interest”, if that make you happy? But, I think everyone else understood. As opposed to run-of- the-mill ‘shopping cars’. That, after all, is why we’re here in the first place, isn’t it?
Secondly, as even the youngest of E85/86s are pushing on for 20 years….I think the term, for cars of that age, is already widely used used by many (particularly younger) people.
You have obviously have not observed how the classic/special interest car market works for long enough, if you don’t understand how fickle it can be or how it can be manipulated and how fashions can come and go….and how certain cars or models can indeed be ‘flavour of the month’.
Either that or you are EXTREMELY naive! I can cite numbers of cars (with personal experience!) of how a car or models can indeed can be manipulated into being ‘flavour of the month’ and how values could virtually skyrocket in a matter of months, simply because the market was manipulated or hyped.
I say that from personal experience as an ex-owner of, for example: E30 M3, E46 M3 CSL, Mercedes Pagoda. None of them particularly rare cars but all of sudden went up hugely in value, at a very specific time, based on a couple of very specific magazine articles. Suddenly everyone wants one….and, that means suddenly their prices go up!
Over the last 44 years, I have owned approximately 70 BMWs and around 30 Mercedes. That TOO has involved an awful lot of market-watching over the decades. So, I too know what I’m talking about.
THAT IS HOW IT WORKS! And, if you choose not to believe that….well, as already said…..
You make a point about 100K mile cars never going to be worth anything….? You’ve obviously never looked at the values of 100k+ mile E30 M3s, air-cooled 911s etc.
You may well, as you state, see a car that in YOUR opinion is priced higher than YOU think it is worth. However, this is simply your opinion. Where does the connect or compulsion stem from that then necessitates you to vocalise or publish that opinion….especially, on a car that you have no personal connection to nor have any intention of buying yourself?
In plain English, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
Furthermore, can you not see how such negatively expressed and published comments will affect or blight someone else’s car or sale? Again, in plain English, HOW OR WHY IS IT YOUR PLACE to do that?
Of course, all of us who are very interested in cars browse the ‘For Sale’ sections in forums. Of course, we all have opinions on the cars that we see. We might, for example, not like an after-market modification that the owner has on their car, or we might think the mileage is higher we like or we are unimpressed by the service history. We will invariably look at the price and have an opinion regarding what is being asked. We may even think that the price is perhaps higher than we would wish to pay ourselves, if we were actually in the market for that car….for example.
I do that ALL the time. I’ve done so for decades.
HOWEVER, all of that is a FAR cry from feeling the need to articulate/vocalise/write those opinions in comments made literally in the section pertaining to that advert! And, seemingly, without any thought for the consequences of those expressed opinions to the seller? I don’t feel or see the compulsion to make those opinions public.
I’m trying to understand this compulsion. Does it make you feel a sense of superiority by publicly displaying ‘expert knowledge’? That people are nodding approvingly at their computer screens: “Oooh! He really knows his onions…. Luckily,he told me that one was too expensive and to steer clear!”
What benefit is it to you?
IMHO, what this section of the forum needs, because ‘The Usual Suspects’ simply cannot control themselves and have this constant compulsion to chime in with their (unsolicited) opinions, on other people’s adverts and attempts to sell their cars - literally to the extent of saying, in as many words, “your car is too expensive” (I’m scarcely exaggerating!) - is to have the ability to make comments REMOVED or DISABLED!
Instead, for example, the listings could have a simple requirement or sections for: Car Details, Photos, Price (mandatory as it currently seems to be) and some mandatory means of contacting the seller.
This would (finally) put a stop to this behaviour.
As a final point, what is particularly wrong if someone comes here to sell a car and doesn’t engage in the forum in any other way? Many others join simply to see if they can find a car to buy; others simply because they have a specific problem to solve. Of all of these people, some come and stay; some come and go. So what? What’s the big deal? Others, on the other hand, seem to make it their life!
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Certainly looks good in the AT advert pictures. Very shiny!It’s interesting to hear everyone’s opinions, and quite surprising how varied they are. I think some of it comes from owner loyalty to their Z4 tribe of cars, and perhaps I am seen as a bit of a traitor for wanting to sell mine so soon and have the cheek to try and make a profit (except it won’t be a profit with all the extras I’ve bought).
If I could I’d keep the Z4 and buy a Cayman as well, but I already have a main daily driver, and can’t justify or afford 3 cars.
Anyway, ad link is below again, I’ve tweaked it slightly with a vid of the ceramic coating in action and swapped the main picture.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...sitor_id=9AB6B1D7-0E57-4C56-92DA-FDCD3FE13470
GLWTS.
derin100
Active member
“A free ad to a captive market” ?! What?!
Now, that really IS utter nonsense, if ever I have read it!
How is this in any shape or form a “captive market”?
Firstly, just like anywhere else, people are free to buy or not. Secondly, and most importantly, the vast majority of people on this forum already have a Z4 and only a very small percentage of those are genuinely looking to buy another!
Now that OP seems to have dissolved this as a for sale thread (I’m not surprised), I will jump in and wholeheartedly agree with this point. I’ve barely mustered any interest when advertising cars on this forum, but sold them easily on Autotrader at decent prices. There is a general prejudice against autos, missing service history, tyres more than 5 years old, whippy aerials (
) etc., which you tend to get on a specialist forum but the general public doesn't seem to care about so long as the car is well presented.Good luck to OP, I hope he gets what he thinks the car is worth.
Completely the opposite for me. I have sold both our E89s via this forum. I have also sold an Alpina E92 and an F31. All were easy and quick sales to very nice people. I am also still in touch personally with one of them!
I was going to adverise my F33 on here aswell, but unfortunately it sold within half an hour of advertising it on M3 cutters. It was half an hour and it achieved more than I advertised it for.
Maybe......just maybe....I sell very good cars at sensible prices? Who knows?
Make up your mind. Which is it (in your opinion)?
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The OP removed his posts from this thread immediately AFTER Mr @derin100 posted his novels above (purely because he took umbrage at my post to him. Nothing to do with the for sale thread).
I can taste the irony. It's actually funny in a way.
The best part is that @derin100 decided to have pop at me for my 'interference' in this thread, yet I said nothing to put off potential buyers. Even if anything I said was construed as such, so what? I would hope anyone looking to buy a car (anywhere) was a grown up and could make their own mind up.
It’s a free public forum generally frequented by enthusiasts for the Z4, if you choose to sell a car on the forum it’s free, unless you choose to donate some £, but that’s another matter; so by being a free forum you’re going to get opinions, which is what a forum is all about, you can’t have a sale section that doesn’t allow opinion because it’s free, so if opinions bother you don’t sell on a forum. It’s tricky one admittedly, BUT, there have been cars advertised on here that have had many issues that have been unearthed by knowledgeable members, and rightly highlighted, it’s saved folk from buying a bad car, it doesn’t happen very often but it’s happened, and that is so often overlooked when opinions are being voiced about cars for sale. Other selling platforms are available, but you can’t have a section that doesn’t allow opinion as that would mean bad cars aren’t being made aware of, and that’s wrong.
I’ve sold at least 7 cars on here, if it’s right it’s right, if not it’ll be picked up on, you cant get away with obvious issues here.
Bottom line, imho, you can’t have folk pointing out defects, but then being silenced when not, it’s not how it works.
I’ve sold at least 7 cars on here, if it’s right it’s right, if not it’ll be picked up on, you cant get away with obvious issues here.
Bottom line, imho, you can’t have folk pointing out defects, but then being silenced when not, it’s not how it works.
Since I got landed with being a Mod I've really had to be careful not to get too involved in some threads, like this one!
But from the start it looked expensive to me for an Auto Coupe on 86K miles. I mean PDJ has his MR listed for less even if it has done more miles.
I sold both my previous Z4s on here even if I didn't get as much as I had hoped for the second one, but values really had slumped in late 2019 which meant I got a good deal on my MC so I could afford to be realistic selling the 3.0Si.
Generally speaking most cars will sell at the right price, which is what someone is willing to pay!
At the end of the day getting feedback is the price you pay for a free advert.
But from the start it looked expensive to me for an Auto Coupe on 86K miles. I mean PDJ has his MR listed for less even if it has done more miles.
I sold both my previous Z4s on here even if I didn't get as much as I had hoped for the second one, but values really had slumped in late 2019 which meant I got a good deal on my MC so I could afford to be realistic selling the 3.0Si.
Generally speaking most cars will sell at the right price, which is what someone is willing to pay!
At the end of the day getting feedback is the price you pay for a free advert.
Exactly, Iain.
This a 'forum'. The word forum means: "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."
But it is also more of a car 'club' IMO, where people look out for each other, which includes 'vetting' certain threads for honesty and integrity.
I am not saying this thread in particular, as the OP did nothing wrong IMO.
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