Best E89 model to buy..part deux

[B21]

So my suggested assessment of the relative merits of E89 models was greeted with critical acclaim..

However some folks couldn't grasp the concept of simple rankings..

So here's my view on the relative merits of the models based on 9 years of experience..

Enjoy!

 

[Pondy]

"qualitative assessment: higher is better, lower is worse"

Most excellent, Peter. See, you DO have a sense of humour hiding in there somewhere.

 

[sars]

Okay, got to as the question, why do the 4 pot turbo's handle so much better than the silky smooth six's and you've missed the aural part of the comparison

And it is certainly not a qualitative comparison rather a subjective one

 

[Pondy]

and you've missed the aural part of the comparison

It's all sex, sex, sex with you, isn't it?

Oh, sorry......my dyslexia again. Aural is hearing, my mistake.

 

[PerryGunn]

It's all sex, sex, sex with you, isn't it?

Oh, sorry......my dyslexia again. Aural is hearing, my mistake.

Nothing wrong with a bit of 'Aural'... it costs about £5/minute... do you want some phone numbers...?

 

[kinger]

Dont wanna be picky but i will in your 'note' you say 35is maintenance is rated 5/10 yet in the chart is a 4/10
And add a smiles per mile rating....

 

[B21]

Dont wanna be picky but i will in your 'note' you say 35is maintenance is rated 5/10 yet in the chart is a 4/10
And add a smiles per mile rating....

Thnx for that..grew to be picky..appreciated

 

[B21]

Okay, got to as the question, why do the 4 pot turbo's handle so much better than the silky smooth six's and you've missed the aural part of the comparison

And it is certainly not a qualitative comparison rather a subjective one

So sound is not part of ‘handling’ in my definition…

The reason why the ranking..the N52 engine is heavier and a significant chunk of it sits in front of the front axle..conversely the N20 sits well behind.

Given the suspension is almost identical with an identical ARB then on transition into a corner there will be a significant greater lag effect of that moment (weight x length) especially in front of the axle as the car starts to transition into a corner, conversely it will be more resistant to correction back once established, the extra weight will cause a greater degree of dive on sharply applied brakes..so in a fast entry into a corner, with brakes, then release, then roll bsck it will be noticeably more ponderous..

FWIW the Audi 80/90 had this in spades..same chassis ..the 90 with its 5th cylinder in front of the axle was actually very bad in this respect.

 

[sars]

So, let me get this straight, you made a bunch of assumptions and then did a subjective analysis based on those assumptions. Please refer to the BMW technical specification below. Whilst this is a specification for the US market, the weight distribution should be the same. You will notice that for the 30i 6MT it is 48/52 biased on the rear, thus the 4 cylinder may sit further back and thus the rear bias will increase, which does not necessarily make for a better handling car.

As for the aural notes, another subjective header is required, as only a numpty would think that sound was a handling characteristic, and if sound wasn't important I'd have an MG cyberstar

 

[Marcoose]

my suggested assessment of the relative merits of E89 models was greeted with critical acclaim

That’s the spirit, Old Pal.

 

[B21]

So, let me get this straight, you made a bunch of assumptions and then did a subjective analysis based on those assumptions. Please refer to the BMW technical specification below. Whilst this is a specification for the US market, the weight distribution should be the same. You will notice that for the 30i 6MT it is 48/52 biased on the rear, thus the 4 cylinder may sit further back and thus the rear bias will increase, which does not necessarily make for a better handling car.

As for the aural notes, another subjective header is required, as only a numpty would think that sound was a handling characteristic, and if sound wasn't important I'd have an MG cyberstar
View attachment 285784

So..the same US spec for the N20 shows 47.7 / 52.3 for manual and for auto 47.8 / 52.7 ..ie a slight further rearward bias..only in extremis does a front engined rear wheel drive car start to show wayward trends for extreme rear weight distribution...in fact I can't find one.

In terms of assumptions and subjectives..the US press especially noted the more obvious nimbleness of the N20 over the N52..in my drives of two 23i, two 30i, and three N20s I also noticed this on my private proving ground here in the Borders.

The suggestion of 'well what about the noise?' point is taken and in fact, reflecting on feedback about various points I've revised it and added the impact of worn / tired aspects into the cars..In addition I've list (highly personal( my view on the desireablity or not of various options and mods)..enjoy!

 

[CliveN]

I love this and I applaud B21 for his assessment. That said, I am currently enjoying my 3.0 auto msport in Spain and I would say (unfortunately) that they are all pretty uninspiring in the twisties. Dont get me wrong - I love my e89 and the way it looks (Alpine White is great on it) - but as a driver’s car. Nope not at all. It drives but it’s not a lot of fun.

 

[CliveN]

I am not sure if anyone can answer this with experience but I would love to see how say a Boxster 4.0 GTS (as a new car) or a E86M (as a predecessor) would rank in all of this. I suspect they would perform better but that the costs associated with ownership would be another level …. or perhaps similar to 3.5i/is. Any ideas based on ownership ?

 

[B21]

I love this and I applaud B21 for his assessment. That said, I am currently enjoying my 3.0 auto msport in Spain and I would say (unfortunately) that they are all pretty uninspiring in the twisties. Dont get me wrong - I love my e89 and the way it looks (Alpine White is great on it) - but as a driver’s car. Nope not at all. It drives but it’s not a lot of fun.

Thnx for the feedback..the motivation was a ‘futile’ attempt to try and encapsulate a myriad of confusing, conflating issues and options for NEWBIES to try and address the subsequent post purchase statement…‘I never realised’….

For many reasons I never entered the ‘dark side’…many friends have , some came and went back to Z4s..

So my reference points are either Audi Quattros …80, A4,A5,A7 or TR7/8s or Rover 220 Turbos, or many Mins(7?) plus 30 plus other very very humdrum cars..

However I’ve driven many E85s/E89s and spent the best part of 60k miles in the company of many E85s/E89s/G29s..often as run leader..I watch (mostly through the mirrors) how the cars and drivers cope with the varying aspects of the Scottish roads and draw my own conclusions..

You’re privileged to drive some other desirable cars…

I’m content , after spending over £30k on mods and development on my 35is that it’s now ‘satisfactory…for sure out if the box the 20i MSport and especially the 35is were wholly unsatisfactory..

Thnx again

 

[CliveN]

Thank you. It’s not a criticism of the E89 nor your ranking. The ranking is great and the E89 is what it is. For the money it’s fabulous. New enough to seem at least a bit modern but not old enough to have become a complete banger. Perfect territory to bag one before they start to be owned by those who can not afford to run them.

But I have steadfastly refused to drive a newish 6 cylinder Boxster/Cayman because I know I would be devastated as to how “uncompelling” my BMWs would be in comparison. And I have a ZM as well as the E89. It’s just as well there is a huge financial delta between them (so I can’t afford the change) and that frankly Boxsters are essentially chavvy (my view only). And as a continental cruiser the E89 is not bad at all. All I would change is slightly less road roar (but then Boxsters have this too). Long live the E89!

 

[matsmith749]

You've almost got it right - just a few changes needed & you will have it.

Custard yellow as +3 --- obviously you meant -3
Adaptive dampers -3 --- if they are working they are surely +3
35is special exhaust - not mentioned (but should be) +5
326m wheels -3 --- get non run flats on em --- nicest wheel on a z4 so +3

For perseverance in the face of adversity, I'd give you +1 personally.

But for being wrong I would then subtract -2.5

Duh.

This would have been so much better in the shape of a sudoku.

Or perhaps 3d printed.

 

[sars]

So..the same US spec for the N20 shows 47.7 / 52.3 for manual and for auto 47.8 / 52.7 ..ie a slight further rearward bias..only in extremis does a front engined rear wheel drive car start to show wayward trends for extreme rear weight distribution...in fact I can't find one.

Thank you for making my point, you class the 4-pot as handling better because the engine is further back and then state no evidence that this becomes wayward, which I didn't state at all, rather that the closer to 50/50 is perceived as better and thus the 30i should be ahead of the 4-pot and not the other way around. Again your marking is subjective and where the 4-pot is concerned, biased too.

 

[Pondy]

This has gone well!

If I was a newbie reading this thread, I would have left and bought an MX5 by now. Or an F type, or even a poor man's Porsche!

 

[john-e89]

Three points as I see it:

1. You can’t find a single front engined rear wheel drive car that shows rear weight distribution causing wayward tends which I’m taking as handling, I can, the E89, they’re s**t out of the box, understeer to oversteer mid corner due to rear weight distribution no matter the engine, with the 4 pot engines being worse than the 6 pots.

2. Why are you listening to what the American press say about handling, they can’t make a car go around corners for love nor money.

3. If you can observe how folks on noons are coping with Scottish roads through your mirrors then you’re obviously able to have out of body experiences and float around studying drivers and still pilot your own car, or going to end up in a big f**k off ditch pretty soon….

 

[Marcoose]

the E89, they’re s**t out of the box

Within 15 minutes going up the foothills of the Sierras, wifey was shouting ‘this shite cannot turn’ !

It’s a massive disappointment for a car full of M badges with a US$70,000 price tag. It took another $10,000 to make it turn. And to quiet down the old broad.