Best E89 model to buy..part deux
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Porthcawl
Scottish Borders
There’s nothing that suggests 50/50 is a holy grail…
FWIW if I was in the ‘lower’ E89 market I wouldn’t by another N20…so your suggestion of blinded by ownership is somewhat false…for the record..
John I respect your views..my views on some of your points are different…Three points as I see it:
1. You can’t find a single front engined rear wheel drive car that shows rear weight distribution causing wayward tends which I’m taking as handling, I can, the E89, they’re s**t out of the box, understeer to oversteer mid corner due to rear weight distribution no matter the engine, with the 4 pot engines being worse than the 6 pots.
2. Why are you listening to what the American press say about handling, they can’t make a car go around corners for love nor money.
3. If you can observe how folks on noons are coping with Scottish roads through your mirrors then you’re obviously able to have out of body experiences and float around studying drivers and still pilot your own car, or going to end up in a big f**k off ditch pretty soon….
When you drive for say 200 miles for say 5 hours on over 200 events with between 4 and 12 Z4s you a mass a wealth of observations…compared to a guy on Facebook who has had his one E89 for 9 months, drives in the Home Counties and has never been on a run I would suggest my insights have more supporting evidence / observations..
Enjoy your day..
Thnx for the encouragement…
I’ve never found listening to several 35i that there’s much difference in tone / note when driven similarly
On 326M so many of cracked with non runflats my opinion stands..I agree they are pretty..pity they show the puny looking but effective calipers..
I’ve driven 4 35is..some with non shagged adaptive dampers ..compared to either B8s or Ohlins pretty crap imho
But..appreciate your views and feedback
I think a F Type is an excellent idea…with hindsight I wish I bought an F Type rather than the 35is..This has gone well!
If I was a newbie reading this thread, I would have left and bought an MX5 by now. Or an F type, or even a poor man's Porsche!
But then I wouldn’t still be here and we wouldn’t be such great friends !
I’ve led a run in the Peak District and at no point did I spend anymore than a quick glance at what was happening behind me, and when I did it was solely to quickly ascertain if anyone was still with me; I hadn’t the time nor inclination to ‘Observe’ how others were driving, nor could I see more than one car which was directly behind me, the rest of the time I was looking forward so as not to crash
, you simply don’t have the time or vision to see anyone except the car immediately following you to make any observations at all as to how they’re coping with the roads, so I’m calling bullshit on you being able to make your statement. Hope you had a good day too.
…..and a 50/50 weight distribution absolutely IS the holy grail, how can it not be…?
Come and do a couple of NC500s with us...then we can review your comments!I’ve led a run in the Peak District and at no point did I spend anymore than a quick glance at what was happening behind me, and when I did it was solely to quickly ascertain if anyone was still with me; I hadn’t the time nor inclination to ‘Observe’ how others were driving, nor could I see more than one car which was directly behind me, the rest of the time I was looking forward so as not to crash
Hope you had a good day too.
…..and a 50/50 weight distribution absolutely IS the holy grail, how can it not be…?
derin100
Active member
Very good, informative and interesting. Thank you for that work.
My latest would have scored very high but is let down by being a pre-2015 28i.
However, I won't be using it until the New Year when I intend to get the various upgrades done as a preventative measure eg. timing-chain, water-pump and thermostat etc.
What is the highest scoring model, BTW?
Thanks again.
My latest would have scored very high but is let down by being a pre-2015 28i.
However, I won't be using it until the New Year when I intend to get the various upgrades done as a preventative measure eg. timing-chain, water-pump and thermostat etc.
What is the highest scoring model, BTW?
Thanks again.
I’ve not actually tipped anything into it to see how it works..I’ll try a few different ones…my guess a 30i MSport auto or a late 28i MSport autoVery good, informative and interesting. Thank you for that work.
My latest would have scored very high but is let down by being a pre-2015 28i.
However, I won't be using it until the New Year when I intend to get the various upgrades done as a preventative measure eg. timing-chain, water-pump and thermostat etc.
What is the highest scoring model, BTW?
Thanks again.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but (yes, I know starting a sentence that way almost certainly means I am being a dick) all you're really doing is sharing your subjective opinions that the smaller-engined E89s handle much "better" and that the 35is is really unreliable and expensive to maintain, but you've dressed those opinions up in a spreadsheet to make it appear somehow scientific.
Either use objective data to determine the rankings, or just call it what it is - your opinion. Your opinions are useful given your experience with these cars, but it is still just opinion, not fact.
I'm also not convinced that a ranking system is particularly helpful - 1st v 2nd is meaningful if 1st is 100% better than 2nd, but if it's only 1% better then it probably makes no difference to anybody. Quantifying the advantages and disadvantages is what's important, albeit much more difficult.
Either use objective data to determine the rankings, or just call it what it is - your opinion. Your opinions are useful given your experience with these cars, but it is still just opinion, not fact.
I'm also not convinced that a ranking system is particularly helpful - 1st v 2nd is meaningful if 1st is 100% better than 2nd, but if it's only 1% better then it probably makes no difference to anybody. Quantifying the advantages and disadvantages is what's important, albeit much more difficult.
Hi there ..of course you’re not being a dock…reasonable questions ..
So..
Of course what I’ve posted is subjective but the key question is how can it be anything else but subjective.? There are no data sets that can give us anything approaching a statistical or scientific assessment of these different issues.
What I have done is to integrate a huge body of empirical data accumulated over 10 years of looking at six or seven Internet forums and countless Facebook pages to draw some conclusions and in addition over 4000 hours of driving time spent with a multitude of Z fours in a variety of conditions I think I’m entitled to offer subjective opinions on the matter that are probably better validated and better reason than most others.
Take a simple example of post about roofs and engine problems with N 52’s. How many post occur across the Internet and forums about problems with rules probably five every day how many posts are there on M5 two engine problems apart from some van issues hardly ever therefore it’s not unreasonable to say that E 89‘s suffer from roof problems quite extensively and the N 52 engine is relatively trouble free
I’d be very pleased if somebody actually produced a well structured book on buying an owning a Z4 but all I see is short soundbites from people with limited experience offering I highly personalised opinion therefore I’ve decided to produce her a book covering all these matters and we’ll see what the market decides in terms of what people think about it .
.
I like the spreadhseet - I just feel deep down it is utterly pointless.
For me - the buying decisions were to get a colour I liked in the top spec, with the biggest engine & most options. I had to be able to insure it within my own budgets, and it needed to fit the shopping in the boot. Needed some kind of auto due to living near London & traffic jams are a drag.
Performance around the nuremburgring or NC500 is irrelevent to me - I'm never going there. 50:50 balance being better? Didn't give it a second thought. Imagine having that conversation with my wife - lol.
I can live with maintenance, and have my eyes open with regard to costs.
Every other nuance just didn't play into the decision.
Everyone has their own list that is formed by their own lives & budgets.
A better mechanism for some kind of score sheet would be to decide what matters to you, then set up your own matrix & not worry too much about the opinions of online self appointed experts. (including me)
For me - the buying decisions were to get a colour I liked in the top spec, with the biggest engine & most options. I had to be able to insure it within my own budgets, and it needed to fit the shopping in the boot. Needed some kind of auto due to living near London & traffic jams are a drag.
Performance around the nuremburgring or NC500 is irrelevent to me - I'm never going there. 50:50 balance being better? Didn't give it a second thought. Imagine having that conversation with my wife - lol.
I can live with maintenance, and have my eyes open with regard to costs.
Every other nuance just didn't play into the decision.
Everyone has their own list that is formed by their own lives & budgets.
A better mechanism for some kind of score sheet would be to decide what matters to you, then set up your own matrix & not worry too much about the opinions of online self appointed experts. (including me)
At the summit of the picturesque fens
This is why, IMO, every 'car review' on youtube, or even in car magazines, is pointless.
Their remit is to get people to watch, or read, them so they are all about 'handling' and 'speed' and 'turn in' and all other manner of nonsense which I don't believe they know anymore than I do about. I am also sure most people don't give a toss about all those things when actually driving a car.
I do find it amusing that we get into the above with an E89 Z4, anyway. They are heavy, cumbersome German convertibles made for driving on good 'A' roads and motorways, generally in warmer climes!
They are not racing cars, or even sportscars IMO.
Over the seven years of production, they didn't make very many different models, anyway. If you take the different engine maps out of the number, there were essentially THREE. N20, N52 and N54 engines with two trim levels. Then post 2012 it went down to TWO, as the N52 was deleted. Not exactly going to make anyone's head spin is it?
I would say by far the most important requisite when buying an E89 is that it isn't full of water and doesn't leak. Many are and do!
In my opinion!
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derin100
Active member
This is absolutely and the reality of things when one is making a decision to buy.
It actually bought my Havana Brown 35i based mainly on the fact that I loved the colour combination. The fact that it was a manual 35i scarcely enter into my head. Yes, I wouldn’t have bought it if it was one of the much lower performance cars but considerations like ‘weight distribution’ didn’t enter into. I never track my cars and to be honest, I doubt, given that I am just a ‘normal’ driver, that any supposed subtle nuance of weight distribution would actually make any difference to my laptimes.
Having sold that about 6 weeks ago, the same essentially principles applied to me now buying my Valencia Orange 28i Automatic. It was first and foremost the ‘look’ of the that sold it to me. Would I have bought it any more or less readily if it were a 35is? No. Did the fact that it’s pre-2015 put me off? No, not really. I will get the known pre-emptive measures done and absorb the cost.
We perhaps don’t like to admit it but one of the highest ranking, if not the highest, criterion in our decision-making to buy a car (any car) is entirely subjective. It is aesthetics. Whether we like what it looks like. That is impossible to quantify.
I do think the spreadsheet does have some utility though. Particularly, for someone who has no knowledge or experience of these cars. It affords some framework for someone to visually compare things. They may, for example, note that a particular model appears or is suggested to have higher maintenance or running costs and they my then wish to explore that further and understand why this is suggested, perhaps?
Thnx for all the comments..all noted..
So..context points..
The extract is part of book I've been working on (slowly) for a couple of years and plan to publish next year.
I waited 5 years to find such a book..non appeared so I decided to have a go.
What I've done is lurk and/or participate on every FB and Internet Forum for the last 2 years to see what happens.
Countless people come and go..their questions are inadequately answered in most cases if at all..the banality of the responses is amazing.
In one context its hardly surprising..if you are on any FB/Forum for any time the number of repetive questions is enormous.
There's probably still around 100,000 E89s out there with over 10,000 in the UK.
We know (by number of owners, MOT history) some trends in ownership and annual mileage.
There is a signficant churn in ownership and that churn is the basis of book strategy.
My book is aimed at Newbies and the more discerning owner who would like a substantial and detailed book covering many aspects of Z4 ownership.
The 20 folks on here (tops) that are passionate, bigoted, here for the beer that express only negative, sceptical or derogatory comments are not my target audience and in fact ironically confirm the need for such a book.
Those folks are no better than the countless FB keyboard warriors we've all seen. If they did something positive in their lives on this forum it would be better for them and for the forum..but that's another story..
Of course the proof will be in how many sell..we'll see.
Interestingly outside this Forum the response has been universally positive.
I did look at a Wikipedia style book that limited itself to absolute facts..but that would be a very small book.
So yes its a personal and expansive view of the E89 but one I feel I'm as able as anyone else to proffer.
In that context..
Of course such purchases are highly emotive, often completely irrational and usually lack real logic..the book will not change that.
I wholly agree that the entry point for many is aesthetics..in my case seeing my first Atacama Yellow 30i MSport..sadly sold 2 hours later..
The E89 is a pretty car and yes its probably nowhere as good as many other cars, but it is a roadster in an ever increasing world of 2 and 3 box cars.
If noise, performance, handling, reliablity, cost of repairs, mods etc weren't issues or points of discussion then the average meeting of Z4 guys on a road trip would be pretty limited.
What the book MAY do is for a subgroup that does some research offer a detailed insight into ALL aspects of buying, owning, maintaining, updating and enjoying a Z4.
I'll carry on writing and I do take constructive comments into account which MAY be incorporated in further edits..!
So..context points..
The extract is part of book I've been working on (slowly) for a couple of years and plan to publish next year.
I waited 5 years to find such a book..non appeared so I decided to have a go.
What I've done is lurk and/or participate on every FB and Internet Forum for the last 2 years to see what happens.
Countless people come and go..their questions are inadequately answered in most cases if at all..the banality of the responses is amazing.
In one context its hardly surprising..if you are on any FB/Forum for any time the number of repetive questions is enormous.
There's probably still around 100,000 E89s out there with over 10,000 in the UK.
We know (by number of owners, MOT history) some trends in ownership and annual mileage.
There is a signficant churn in ownership and that churn is the basis of book strategy.
My book is aimed at Newbies and the more discerning owner who would like a substantial and detailed book covering many aspects of Z4 ownership.
The 20 folks on here (tops) that are passionate, bigoted, here for the beer that express only negative, sceptical or derogatory comments are not my target audience and in fact ironically confirm the need for such a book.
Those folks are no better than the countless FB keyboard warriors we've all seen. If they did something positive in their lives on this forum it would be better for them and for the forum..but that's another story..
Of course the proof will be in how many sell..we'll see.
Interestingly outside this Forum the response has been universally positive.
I did look at a Wikipedia style book that limited itself to absolute facts..but that would be a very small book.
So yes its a personal and expansive view of the E89 but one I feel I'm as able as anyone else to proffer.
In that context..
Of course such purchases are highly emotive, often completely irrational and usually lack real logic..the book will not change that.
I wholly agree that the entry point for many is aesthetics..in my case seeing my first Atacama Yellow 30i MSport..sadly sold 2 hours later..
The E89 is a pretty car and yes its probably nowhere as good as many other cars, but it is a roadster in an ever increasing world of 2 and 3 box cars.
If noise, performance, handling, reliablity, cost of repairs, mods etc weren't issues or points of discussion then the average meeting of Z4 guys on a road trip would be pretty limited.
What the book MAY do is for a subgroup that does some research offer a detailed insight into ALL aspects of buying, owning, maintaining, updating and enjoying a Z4.
I'll carry on writing and I do take constructive comments into account which MAY be incorporated in further edits..!