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Brake pad upgrades

J

Jack London

Member
I'm going to be doing some prolonged fast road driving this summer in Europe and would like some ideas about upgrades to avoid brake fade. I'll be refreshing the fluid too.
I've seen that there's not much in the way of matching sets. Porterfield seem to be fronts but not rears for example. So please share your experience and recommendations.

Probably not EBC yellows but if you've used them and found them to be good on the M then please share.

Thanks all.
 
Pasting my Facebook reply here for future searchers' reference:

Performance Friction 11 compound front and OEM rear. Fantastic bite cold or hot, not that dusty compared with other compounds of similar performance, zero squeal, and resist fade really well.

I ran these on a hard-charging Spanish and Portuguese trip last summer up and down mountains in 30+ degrees ambient temps. I'm on OEM discs and rubber hoses and with fresh fluid and these pads this is all the braking I'll ever need. I've tried a number of top compounds such as the Carbone Lorraine RC range, Carbotech XP, Ferodo DS, EBC, PBS, as well as other PF variants, albeit on other cars, and like to think I'm fairly choosy when it comes to pads.

Great value at £149 delivered: https://www.design911.co.uk/p/pfc-fast-road-and-race-front-brake-pads-bmw-e46-m3--e36-m3/
 
I wouldnt over think it. Good well made brands should suffice. 5 years ago I did a run with mates to the Italian lakes and back in a 1996 Celica GT4 and it wasn't the brakes that ended up being the issue, more so the suspension wear and tear with a top mount collapsing on one side at the front on the way down a mountain. I was with a Boxster a 911 a C63 and a GT86 so we were not hanging around.
 
Thanks for the opinions so far.
What do people think of the standard brakes when pushed a bit?

I'm doing Spain along the north and middle. The guys I'm going with are absolute maniacs so won't necessarily be keeping up with them. They abuse cars. Last France trip ended with one of them destroying his brand new M4s engine. And my good mate cooks brakes on his way to work... He ended up spending 6grand on essentially race spec brakes for his 1 series. I don't hate my car so I won't be trying to break it. :D
 
With good pads and fluid and in good working order the standard brakes are fine for (very) fast road. When conditions allow, usually overseas, I do push very hard although I'm not the heaviest braker. As a indicator of the sort of pace we do I wore my rear Goodyear Super Sports from brand new to 2 mm in 2k miles, although Iberian road surfaces are like sandpaper (which is why you can corner so fast and makes it so much fun to drive there).

I imagine you'd reach the limits of the stock brakes on braking-heavy circuits like Snetterton, although I don't track my Z4M.

If you haven't recently checked the guide pins and pistons are moving freely, that's worth doing and easy to do.
 
Jack London said:
I'm going to be doing some prolonged fast road driving this summer in Europe and would like some ideas about upgrades to avoid brake fade. I'll be refreshing the fluid too.
I've seen that there's not much in the way of matching sets. Porterfield seem to be fronts but not rears for example. So please share your experience and recommendations.

Probably not EBC yellows but if you've used them and found them to be good on the M then please share.

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you are doing a Euro trip and are looking at changing pads. I'm doing the same with my Z4MC with a Euro trip in May heading to BMW museum and Austrian Alps but also doing Spa and Nurburgring on the way.

I've been researching this for some time and have come to the conclusion that the EBC Yellow Stuff pads are a superb option all round especially the latest compound spec (3068) that they changed to in 2021. So I'm a bit intrigued with why you are not thinking of EBC yellows as they would be ideal for hard and fast street driving at higher temps with some possible track use thrown in.

https://ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-yellowstuff-fast-street-pads/

I am thinking of going with a pad and line kit from EBC which includes EBC stainless steel braided hoses, EBC yellows all round, upgraded EBC Glycol fluid with higher boiling temp. They are R90 approved and perfect for fast road and some track use.

For racing or hard regular track use EBC recommend the `BlueStuff or race pads due to Yellows having a longer bed in cycle. I think this is where some people have gone wrong in the past with EBC yellows, especially as some don't seem to understand the extended bed in process is needed to get the EBC yellows ready for high temp use. EBC yellows can also be used for track as long as they are bed in properly. For fast road with high resistant to temperature, it seems to me Yellows are perfect.

There is a BMW specialist, RBM Hampshire in Hook, that work on a lot of M cars, and they have fitted EBC Yellows to a number of M Cars with great results including Z4MC with stainless steel braided lines which really improved pedal feel.

Obviously, there are more pad options out there than we've collectively had hot dinners, but I really like the EBC product which provided you follow the guidelines, should be perfect for the given requirement. My thinking is also to do the braided lines to get the better pedal feel, and I also like the fact that for a UK guy such as me, EBC are designed and manufactured in the UK and very reasonably priced.

Good luck with your choice!
 
Road use = std pads & fresh fluid is very well enough.

Track use = loads of options but stay clear of EBC products - a good practice.
 
Yes I am also of the opinion EBC stay away from for hard use and track.

Hawk CL etc for that type of work.

Weirdly when I had a VX220T I was recommended Mintex pads, so gave it a go and they were fantastic on a lightweight car :D
 
Don't agree with the views on EBC. This might be based on previous experience where they had some manufacturing issues long time back but these are long gone. Also, people have failed to bed in the pads properly and then wonder why they had issues. :?

Many 'track use' pads are poor for normal road use, with slow warm up time and speaking when cold.

They wouldn't use EBC Yellows for UK Miata Championship if they weren't any good. Track use is fine if they are bed in properly. Fast road for EBC Yellows really good where higher temps are expected.

I would agree OE pads are fine and enough for fast road until higher temp ranges with prolonged use are experienced. I've had that experience and the OE pads stopped working and were never right again after that so had to change.
 
No real world experience personally but from the track days I've been on and speaking to others, EBC always got average to poor reviews, especially on heavier cars. Obviously only anecdotal but take as you will.

Just from my personal research, there's better pads available, albeit it more money. I run Pagid RS-29's personally front and rear on road and track and been very impressed (if not a bit dusty!). Many other makes that get highly rated also in a similar price bracket :thumbsup:
EBC probably fine if your on a budget though.
 
EBC earned a bad name through some dubious early compounds and poor quality control, with products that would vary from batch to batch. I tried Greenstuff on a Porsche in 2009 and Reds on my M5 in 2010 that were okay, then a set of Yellows in 2016 on an Impreza that were comically bad.

Around 4-5 years back they started to get their act together and by accounts the current products are very competitive. It will take a long time for their reputation to recover, though.

Personally I'd opt for RP-1 or RP-X over any of the ColourStuff for a full-on Euro blat, but I do like a hardcore pad and I can live with squeal and dust.
 
To be fair, I've never had any problem with Yellowstuff or Bluestuff, and got them at such a low price (due to a 50% discount for motorsport marshals) that I never bothered looking elsewhere.

I've also used the same discount to buy pads for one or two people on here without hearing any horror stories from them either.

However, my success/failure rate with Green/Red has not matched the Yellow/Blue.

...and not matter how much you're tempted...DO NOT FIT Orangestuff to a road car (even a fast road, light track duty one) as they take a hell of a lot of heat to work. I finally got them into their operating temperature after a hard 30 minute session at Oulton Park...and removed them the following day.

I now run Pagid RS29 in my Porsche Brembo calipers - which I found out madate much more expensive pads than BMW OE calipers :headbang:

Keep meaning to try some of the pads mentioned previously, but don't want to risk not liking them...or them not suiting my driving style :P
 
I should probably clarify that not horror stories as such from what I've been told (apart from the dodgy batch thing a few years ago), but more not lasting long / fade quicker kind of feedback. But then I guess more expensive pads would be expected to be better in those respects so like I say, depends on budget :thumbsup:
 
AndyBeech said:
I should probably clarify that not horror stories as such from what I've been told (apart from the dodgy batch thing a few years ago), but more not lasting long / fade quicker kind of feedback. But then I guess more expensive pads would be expected to be better in those respects so like I say, depends on budget :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Oh, I have read/heard horror stories about other EBC pads on various fora (especially Pistonheads)…but not experienced it personally on Yellow/Bluestuff…and that’s from initially using a set of Yellowstuff every 3-6 months from about 2000 to 2008 on my 1700kg e34 M5. I did once try Pagid RS42, but they lasted 1 day (about 200 track miles, plus the 200 miles getting to the track & back) 🤣

The Z4M is much lighter, and thus much easier on the pads than the M5 (and the Z4M rears will last the whole year if you remember to disable TC on track)…the M5 had no traction control :driving:

For the price (discounted to about £110 for a complete 2-axle set) the EBCs were hard to beat for helping to minimise your track costs…but at full price, then they have to compete with newer entrants.
 
Seems to have not posted what I wrote!

I don't have anything against EBC. I run EBC discs and redstuff pads on my MR2 as I prefer redstuff for daily and occasional fast road on the MR2.
But I'm not convinced it would be any better than the standard pads. Wanted to try out some more well regarded pads for experience and also because I'd like to have that extra headroom and capacity in the brakes whether I end up using it or not. It's getting a fresh set of PS5s so may as well give it some fresh brakes too :)
 
I’ve never run (on the M5 nor Z4M) anything other than OE discs as the EBC ones were no cheaper when I last looked…and my Corrado ran AP BBK with noisy DS3000 pads (they did work well though).
 
I use EBC Red stuff on another car for fast road and like it but haven't done so on the track. On my Z4MC I use Porterfield R4-S, a similar compound not intended for tracking a car and have been quite happy with it.
 
I have used EBC Yellow stuff, now on the Blue. Once fitted, they stay on the car until knackered. They both cope brilliantly with daily road, weekend blasts and a few track days. Both work well from cold, don't produce much dust, don't squeal, modulate very well and don't snatch. I'm only on my first set of blues and if bedded in as per instructions they both do a fantastic job but the blues seem to stop me and my Z slightly better. I've never tested a set to destruction, my limit is track days and usually between 10 and 20 minute sessions and neither have never dropped off but I have no idea how they would last in events lasting longer. Even though I have to pay full price (£230 all round) and I am a tight #rse, they are a bargain.
 
plenty said:
Pasting my Facebook reply here for future searchers' reference:

Performance Friction 11 compound front and OEM rear. Fantastic bite cold or hot, not that dusty compared with other compounds of similar performance, zero squeal, and resist fade really well.

I ran these on a hard-charging Spanish and Portuguese trip last summer up and down mountains in 30+ degrees ambient temps. I'm on OEM discs and rubber hoses and with fresh fluid and these pads this is all the braking I'll ever need. I've tried a number of top compounds such as the Carbone Lorraine RC range, Carbotech XP, Ferodo DS, EBC, PBS, as well as other PF variants, albeit on other cars, and like to think I'm fairly choosy when it comes to pads.

Great value at £149 delivered: https://www.design911.co.uk/p/pfc-fast-road-and-race-front-brake-pads-bmw-e46-m3--e36-m3/
Click to expand...

Hi, the link you've shared is not for PFC11 but z-rated sport pads.
Just want to make sure you're talking about PFC11 for street use, and I order the right ones :)
 
insider said:
Hi, the link you've shared is not for PFC11 but z-rated sport pads.
Just want to make sure you're talking about PFC11 for street use, and I order the right ones :)
Click to expand...
Hmm..I think Design 911 have changed the stock shown on the link as I definitely ordered a set of PF11 from them last year and I'm sure I double-checked the above link before posting it, but it now directs to PFZ and I cannot find PF11 available now from them.

Definitely PF11 not the inferior PFZ. Kam Racing have PF11 but are considerably more expensive than what I paid: https://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufacturers/performance-friction/bmw/performance-friction-brake-pads-bmw-z4-m-e85.html
 
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