The jab ..

Will you take the COVID jab

  • Of course

    Votes: 158 79.0%

  • Hell no

    Votes: 18 9.0%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 11 5.5%

  • After results of first round are known

    Votes: 13 6.5%
  • Total voters
    200
The whole proving you’ve had the jab to enter shop x/y/z, a football stadium, etc etc comes back to what seems like further erosion of the freedoms we once enjoyed in the uk

I will personally be getting the vaccine but I think everyone should have a choice and I don’t think you should have to prove anything, to anyone, at any time.

I watched a video recently, where an elderly, seemingly mentally impaired gentleman, could not articulate his exemption to a security guard and hence his lack of a mask. He was physically removed from the shop. The police were called and backed up the security guard

Now you don’t HAVE to articulate the condition that prevents you wearing a mask. It is your right to privacy. But the rules get misinterpreted and peoples rights violated and backed up by the very people who should be protecting those rights

As I said, I will have the jab but I won’t be justifying wether I have or haven’t, or when, or which variant, to anyone at any point. Not because I have something to hide but because I don’t have to. Plain and simple

If I and my family etc are protected, then what someone else does or doesn’t do is not my concern. I certainly don’t have the right to question their decision, which is the path we are going down

If we start going down the route where you can’t enter a shop without proof of vaccination, then we really will be in a far bigger mess than Covid would ever be.

We’re already in a position where PCSO’s, who have no powers, are stopping innocent people in the street and asking them what they are doing.

I just hope that any Covid legislation that was rushed through is also ripped up in June and not left in place to be used for reasons it wasn’t intended for
 
mgrlane said:
I think Ronk is on the windup with it.

They can't organise track and trace so God knows how they would manage an internal vax passport.
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People keep saying that but we have the biggest track & Trace system in the world. The problem is enforcing the self isolation / quarantine.
 

We were told that the nightingales were fully staffed and supplied, ready to go at a moments notice :idunno:

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Maybe they were but only because they were going to redeploy staff from other areas. Remember also that a lot of patients were discharged in an attempt to clear the decks where under more usual circumstances they would have stayed in.


The numbers I cited were for general and acute care given that a whole host of other things were put on hold that would have freed up staff across the board which is probably why the nightingales were "fully staffed" yet they basically saw no patients. That doesn't support the argument that they were full to bursting
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Nightingales were a precaution - if the worst case surge had happened then they would have seen patients, fortunately the first lockdown worked.

Right now the numbers in hospital with covid are coming down but still high and comparable with the peak in April. A further difference between then and now is that 40,000 staff are self isolating either with covid or as a precaution against it . This wasn't the case in the early days when testing was not so widespread and has a direct impact on capacity.
 
Other countries will dictate whether we will need vaccination passports just like they did with PCR tests. No passport no entry. So those that choose not to be vaccinated then that is their choice which I fully support. They will just have to live with other countries not wanting them. As for the same in this country, private businesses can do what they like. Even now if a shop does not want to grant you access they can refuse entry. They don't even have to justify their reason. The same will hold true for vaccination passports. If a business does not want to do business or engage with you that is their choice, just the same as it's your choice whether to be vaccinated or not.

If you are an employer you have legal obligations under the Health & Safety at Work Act towards your employees and customers.
 
Nanu said:
Other countries will dictate whether we will need vaccination passports just like they did with PCR tests. No passport no entry. So those that choose not to be vaccinated then that is their choice which I fully support. They will just have to live with other countries not wanting them. As for the same in this country, private businesses can do what they like. Even now if a shop does not want to grant you access they can refuse entry. They don't even have to justify their reason. The same will hold true for vaccination passports. If a business does not want to do business or engage with you that is their choice, just the same as it's your choice whether to be vaccinated or not.

If you are an employer you have legal obligations under the Health & Safety at Work Act towards your employees and customers.
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What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?
 
enuff_zed said:
mgrlane said:
Argyll Andy said:
Ones had Covid, ones not :poke: :rofl:
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About right for this thread :rofl:
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Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :poke: :roll:
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But is there immunity from having Covid and how does it compare to the vaccination immunity? That's the question that no one is answering. That's the question that anyone involved in profiting from the vaccine doesn't want the ask nor have the answer (if it's positive). I am sure if there wasn't Pharma would be singing from the rafters about the fact that it doesn't if it didn't.
 
mgrlane said:
enuff_zed said:
mgrlane said:
About right for this thread :rofl:
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Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :poke: :roll:
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But is there immunity from having Covid and how does it compare to the vaccination immunity? That's the question that no one is answering. That's the question that anyone involved in profiting from the vaccine doesn't want the ask nor have the answer (if it's positive). I am sure if there wasn't Pharma would be singing from the rafters about the fact that it doesn't if it didn't.
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I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine
 
Nictrix said:
I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine
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BoJo changes his policy and his stance like the wind changes direction.

I really would love to see any info on people who have recovered from the virus vs immunity through vaccination.

There must be more information out there as the virus has bee around 14+ months. 100% studies must have been done and if they were negative they would be using them right now to beat us all with a stick to increase the uptake of the jabs.

Which gives me hope- as the fact that we haven't heard anything about it means that natural immunity must be working.

People who are worried about being forced to take the vaccine should have a look into Resolution 2361 which I believe the UK is part of.

Couple of extracts here:
-Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT
mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get
themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves;
-Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated;

Article here:
https://pace.coe.int/en/files/29004/html
 
Nictrix said:
I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine
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Basically yes but the same problem was present, they type of virus doesnt lend itself to long term immunity so you would catch it over and over BUT for that same reason we will need to vaccinate over and over (just like flu) lovely wee money maker for Big Pharma!

Goldman Sachs published a report on gene therapy medicine :
“The potential to deliver ‘one shot cures’ is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies,”

“GILD is a case in point, where the success of its hepatitis C franchise has gradually exhausted the available pool of treatable patients,”

“In the case of infectious diseases such as hepatitis C, curing existing patients also decreases the number of carriers able to transmit the virus to new patients, thus the incident pool also declines … Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise.”

I mean when the devil himself is telling you, who's to argue :idunno:

As for R2361 I noticed that was provisional from 2021 so not sure if we would be bound by that?
 
Flyingfifer said:
As for R2361 I noticed that was provisional from 2021 so not sure if we would be bound by that?
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I believe so but I wouldn't put 100% on it- proves a starting point for research. Doesn't seem to be to much on it and I have tried duckduckgo as I thought google might be censoring it.

We are up to 71 people in our age group that tested positive within 28 days of a covid test that have died in hospital (or a doctor said they had it based on symptoms without testing) that didn't have any pre-existing medial conditions:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/weekly-total-archive/
(most current figures, tab 3 in spreadsheet).

It's got all the way to 518 if we include people with medial conditions!

Quick- we better book ourselves in for a vaccine.... Dangerous world for us out there.
 
mgrlane said:
We are up to 71 people in our age group that tested positive within 28 days of a covid test that have died in hospital (or a doctor said they had it based on symptoms without testing) that didn't have any pre-existing medial conditions:

It's got all the way to 518 if we include people with medial conditions!

Quick- we better book ourselves in for a vaccine.... Dangerous world for us out there.
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HTEqhFx.gif


:rofl: :rofl:
 
mgrlane said:
Resolution 2361
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There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.
 
Vornwend said:
There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.
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So it look likely that they could basically make this a flu jab type thing where they could vaccinate 3 times every two years. Or perhaps twice a year to keep things on the safe side.
 
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