Beemingallover
Member
I am thinking of doing an interim engine oil change on my Z4MR, 93kmls. What spec oil is recommended?
Thanks
Thanks
Z4M S54 oil?
- Thread starter Beemingallover
- Start date
10w-60 is the correct grade.
OE BMW is Castrol Edge Supercar.
Personally whilst I have always stuck with this up to now, my next change will be to a more modern fully synth in the same grade - my view being that oil tech has moved on substantially since the s54 was first launched, and there are more modern oils which can offer better protection when cold and better resilience to extreme heat from track use etc.
Something like Motul 300V or Millers CFS 10w 60 is what I'll be planning to use next.
OE BMW is Castrol Edge Supercar.
Personally whilst I have always stuck with this up to now, my next change will be to a more modern fully synth in the same grade - my view being that oil tech has moved on substantially since the s54 was first launched, and there are more modern oils which can offer better protection when cold and better resilience to extreme heat from track use etc.
Something like Motul 300V or Millers CFS 10w 60 is what I'll be planning to use next.
I kind of look it the other way with these newer oils. They may have 'better' empirical properties than the Castrol, however the engine was designed and tested with that particular oil.
Anecdotal perhaps, but I have read of the millers nanodrive stuff, that is no doubt a good oil, eating people's s54 cams.
The few 'teams' I know racing s54s swear by castrol too.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it and all that imo...
Anecdotal perhaps, but I have read of the millers nanodrive stuff, that is no doubt a good oil, eating people's s54 cams.
The few 'teams' I know racing s54s swear by castrol too.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it and all that imo...
North West Surrey
My cams ate themselves at about 70k anyway, and it was run on castrol all the way up to then!
I somewhat agree with your points though, hence why I've still not switched over... I spoke at some length to Mr Vanos a few years back and he recommended running fuchs titan or pro race 10w50 would be better but again it's all opinion rather than fact which I struggle with!
Liverpool
Mine was run 10w60 Edge (for M Engines or Supercar), from when I bought it 9000 miles, and all 140,000 miles since it had the BMW AUC engine replacement at 20,000 miles…but it’s never been in there more than about 6000 miles.
Bearings needed doing at that mileage though…although I went for a replacement, low mileage replacement engine instead.
Bearings needed doing at that mileage though…although I went for a replacement, low mileage replacement engine instead.
I used this on the last change, and also run it in my mainly track used Clio 172 Cup. Is very highly regarded - it is a full ester based oil.
For my Z4 M Roadster, I use Liqui Moly Synthoil Race Tech GT1 SAE 10W-60 .. made in Germany.
www.liqui-moly.com
Synthoil Race Tech GT1 SAE 10W-60
Fully synthetic motor oil designed for extreme conditions. Developed specifically for high output, high performance engines. The wide viscosity range and unique formulation provides outstanding thermal stability for proper lubrication and low engine wear in tough conditions.
The redline 5w50 is a great oil for those of us that do some spirited runs and no track work. It is pretty think at 100c at about 21 ish vs 24 is for 10w60 but much thinner at startup for quick flow and shorter runs. Warms up faster also and has HTS numbers. Better than most 10w60 oils. But it's not the holy grail castrol so make up your own mind.
All about price I expect, 10w60 is 10w60 mostly otherwise there would be no 10w60 standard. Castrol is not magic fluid.
BMW oil is Castrol in North America and Shell in Europe. It's all just contractual and marketing stuff.
I'd be concerned running a 50 weight oil with the reputation for bearing wear the S54 engine has - you need the heavier weight when hot as otherwise you don't get the film strength.
It's not just any 50w. Take a look below. It's much thinner at startup and very close at 100c to the 10w60 spec. In addition it's high temp sheer specs are much better that most 10w60. My car is never tracker but it does get started at 0 degrees Celsius for short trips in winter. The redline is just better for that. Depending on how you measure it flows about 20% bette4
Chatgpt.
Good question — the SAE J300 standard defines the viscosity limits for engine oils to carry a certain grade like 10W-60. It actually has two sets of requirements:
So for an oil to be called 10W-60, it must:
Here are the specs for the supposed holy grail.
This is chatgpts best effort at a plot down to 0 degrees C but it says it's only a model. You can see the redline flows better during warm up and is pretty close at temp. My car will never be at sustained high rpm just a few pulls. The redline also stays in viscosity at high temp much better than most 10w60 according
Chatgpt.
Good question — the SAE J300 standard defines the viscosity limits for engine oils to carry a certain grade like 10W-60. It actually has two sets of requirements:
- “W” grade (cold performance)
This is about low-temperature cranking and pumping.- For 10W:
- CCS (Cold Cranking Simulator) at –25 °C: max 7000 mPa·s
- MRV (Mini-Rotary Viscometer) at –30 °C: max 60,000 mPa·s, and yield stress ≤ 35,000 Pa
- Kinematic viscosity at 100 °C: ≥ 4.1 mm²/s
- For 10W:
- “60” grade (hot performance)
This is about viscosity at operating temperatures.- Kinematic viscosity at 100 °C: 21.9 to < 26.1 mm²/s
- HTHS (High-Temperature High-Shear at 150 °C): ≥ 3.7 mPa·s
So for an oil to be called 10W-60, it must:- Stay thin enough to crank/pump at –25/–30 °C (≤ 7000 / ≤ 60,000 mPa·s).
- Have a kinematic viscosity at 100 °C between 21.9–26.1 mm²/s.
- Have HTHS viscosity at 150 °C of ≥ 3.7 mPa·s.
| Property | Value / Spec |
|---|---|
| SAE Viscosity Grade | 5W-50 Red Line Oil+2Southern Counties Lubricants+2 |
| Viscosity @ 100 °C (cSt) | 21.0 Truck Stuff+3Southern Counties Lubricants+3Red Line Oil+3 |
| Viscosity @ 40 °C (cSt) | 130 Southern Counties Lubricants+2Red Line Oil+2 |
| Viscosity Index | 186 Red Line Oil+2Southern Counties Lubricants+2 |
| CCS Viscosity (Poise) @ –30 °C | 60 Poise Southern Counties Lubricants+1 |
| HTHS Viscosity @ 150 °C | 5.0 cP (ASTM D4741) Southern Counties Lubricants+1 |
| Pour Point | –45 °C (–49 °F) Red Line Oil+2Red Line Oil+2 |
| NOACK Evaporation Loss (1h @ 250 °C) | 6 % Southern Counties Lubricants+2Red Line Oil+2 |
| API Service Class | SN / SM / SL / CF Red Line Oil+2Southern Counties Lubricants+2 |
| ACEA Service Class | A3 / B3 / B4 Red Line Oil+2Southern Counties Lubricants+2 |
Here are the specs for the supposed holy grail.
Castrol TWS 10W-60 — Typical / Spec‐Values
| Property | Value |
|---|---|
| Density @ 15 °C (relative) | ~ 0.853 g/mL Scribd+3Scribd+3brrperformance.com+3 |
| Viscosity (kinematic) @ 100 °C | ~ 22.7 mm²/s Scribd+3Scribd+3doczz.net+3 |
| Viscosity (kinematic) @ 40 °C | ~ 160 mm²/s Scribd+3Scribd+3doczz.net+3 |
| Cold Crank‐Simulator Viscosity (CCS) @ ‐25 °C | ~ 4,879 mPa·s (cP) Scribd+2doczz.net+2 |
| Viscosity Index (VI) | ~ 173 Scribd+1 |
| Pour Point | ~ −39 °C Scribd+1 |
| Flash Point (PMCC) | ≈ >200 °C (some sources say ~-“~200 / ~203 °C”) Scribd+2Demon Tweeks Merchandising+2 |
| Sulfated Ash | ~ 1.29 % wt Scribd+2Scribd+2 |
| Spec / Approvals / Performance Claims | SAE 10W-60; ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4; API SN/CF; Exclusive approval for BMW M-Models; meets VW 505.00 / 501.01 in some markets. Scribd+2doczz.net+2 |
This is chatgpts best effort at a plot down to 0 degrees C but it says it's only a model. You can see the redline flows better during warm up and is pretty close at temp. My car will never be at sustained high rpm just a few pulls. The redline also stays in viscosity at high temp much better than most 10w60 according
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Just a note for the following post, that whilst I know a lot of posters are basing this on relatively mild UK winters, I think @Sajk is in the USA, so very cold winters may be a normal part of life, so requirements will differ. I've only ever been below -30ºc when skiing in Canada (Jasper / Banff where we saw -35ºc and everyone had engine heaters plugged in if the cars had to be parked outside).
Doesn't all that ChatGPT summary just say (in a lot more words) that the overall differences are the expected variances between the two grades? Which normally would mean (not brand specific)...
- 10w60 is slightly thicker at freezing temps (<0ºc) than a 5w50
- 10w60 is slightly thicker at warmer temps (40ºc) than a 5w50
- 10w60 is slightly thicker at hotter temps (>100ºc) than a 5w50
But oils can/do spread within the range a bit, but as long as the oil meets the API/ACEA spec, then they can claim that grade/spec. It's like the DOT rating on brake fluid...some of the DOT4 fluids perform as well as the DOT5 fluid, but they've never paid for it to be retested/recertified, so can only advertise it as a DOT4...but that also means that they could reduce the performance a little in the future and still be within the DOT4 specs.
To complete the comparison, the Castrol 10w60 HTHS at 150ºc is 5.2.
For comparison, here are the specs for another common well-know oil, Mobil 1 10w60:
- Density @ 15ºc = 0.855
- Viscosity @ 100ºc = 22.7
- Viscosity @ 40ºc = 152.7
- Viscosity @ 150ºc = 5.7
- MRV @ -30ºc - 14751 (cannot be directly converted to CCS)
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Why do you hate Castrol so much?
Regardless of all the ChatGPT guff, it's the only one that is 'long term' tested, I don't think anyone's saying it's a holy grail.
Some people thought Millers was ok to use until there seemed to be a pattern of it chewing through cam followers.
As mentioned, if it ain't broke......