Z4M coupe v Porsche 911 997.1 C2S comparison.

[abar121]

I've not driven a 991 GT3 as yet. I would hope the EPAS has at least some feel. Driving a 718S on track is weird, you can't feel anything at all. Nor on a 991.2 C2S. Zero, Nada.

No doubt the engine would be wonderful though.

The base 718 is quite interesting and now quite a quick car. It gained the most by by being turbo'd and is now probably the only Porsche you ever need, for a pretty bargain price tag - f you go sensible with the options. Listed as 5.1 to sixty and 170mph, but actually quicker than the old S model and probably quite close to a Z4M in a straight line. You also get GT4 / Turbo based front/rear suspension and rack even on the base model.

It's possible to spec one for low forties with met paint, wheel upgrade and nav. A bargain if you can live with the soundtrack.

 

[ZermattV]

Fiesta is by far the best hot hatch I've owned and within my top 3 fave cars view owned.. its like bang upto date r5 GTT.

Now you are really talking mate, can't get over how good they are

 

[Beedub]

Fiesta is by far the best hot hatch I've owned and within my top 3 fave cars view owned.. its like bang upto date r5 GTT.

Now you are really talking mate, can't get over how good they are

i no I've gone on and on about it but its stupidly good, top top top class drivers car. On a typical uk B road that car would leave low end supercars for dead. i also just cant believe just how good it drives.

 

[jimmybell]

718 has had resoundingly negative reviews due to the new engine, specifically.

 

[Machine monkey]

That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

 

[Beedub]

That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

Too me their was incremental differences, particularly the steering and the feel, the hole car to me feels very different , you really need some decent seat time however on a decent road or on track to really appreciate it!

 

[Machine monkey]

That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

Too me their was incremental differences, particularly the steering and the feel, the hole car to me feels very different , you really need some decent seat time however on a decent road or on track to really appreciate it!

To be honest i agree on the steering. The elctric steering on the satndard z4 is rubbish. I am in the middle of changing mine to a hydralic system. All the other things suspensin brakes with the upgrsdes i have done I wouldnt change my car for a standard z4m. And i have no intention of getting rid of mine to much time and love invoveld with it.

 

[abar121]

718 has had resoundingly negative reviews due to the new engine, specifically.

Whilst it's been mentioned, I'm not sure I'd go that far. It did very well in the Autocar Best Driver's car this year, Evo, plus the Motortrend equivalent. They are quick cars, the 718S has been timed at 14 seconds to 200kph, identical to a Cayman GT4. Same around a track too.

I did step out of a C63 into one though and what a dull sounding engine that four pot is. It sounds like a 1970s Honda Goldwing at idle, but with more clatter. Zero steering feel too.

I found the Z4M a huge improvement over the 3400S and 3.0Si Z4s. To be honest, I should have tried one much earlier, but was put off by the cooking Z4s. Fine cars, but quite detached with EPAS, soft chassis and runflats / big wheels.

The Z4M is quite raw and compromised by comparison, but such an event to drive

 

[jimmybell]

Indeed the sum of small changes often adds up to a very different experience, tho i seem to remember the Evo review not being too favourable - left my mag at home. Fine and very capable car, unexciting engine ('fast' doesn't mean fun!) - I'd personally shoot for previous gen cayman GT4/boxster spyder.

I guess it's subjective too - i mean, for anyone that has no sportscar background (or engine snobbery), it's a fine car indeed.

Trying to replace my Z4MC and C63 (6.2 V8) and .. well, it's just not going to happen I predict perhaps AM V12V/991 GT3 and perhaps a more sedate 'daily' to replace the C63 (F80 M3)

I get the impression from reviews the 911 transition to small turbo has been a greater success than the cayman/boxster line.

 

[abar121]

Yeah, the 991.2s do still sound good. I drove a 991 C2S PDK with most of the kit on it. It certainly went well and sounded nice with the sports exhaust.

I wouldn't switch a C63 W204 for one though. I drive a facelift derestricted one quite regularly. Such a wonderful engine with that off beat warble in the background. Sublime! Unlike the Porkers, you can just get in it and drive, without hitting loads of buttons to turn off stop/start / minicab gearbox mode. Manual mode also works properly in the C63, unlike the non-GT3 991s, where it still has a soft and hard kick down present. Really annoying.

I've only briefly driven an M4 which was fun. Probably great on track too. You'll still miss that epic M156 motor though!

 

[jimmybell]

indeed. unbeatable engine, sadly :/ facelift with PPP +(30bhp etc) + LSD ;d great car, i must say. Was a gamble purchasing it but totally understand the hype around them - not as precise as BMW - i suspect largely due to the extra weight they add trying to make it luxurious, but much more thrilling for everyday use.

 

[petrolhead88]

Interesting comparison. What are your thoughts on throttle pedal feel?
I think the Z4M pedal feel is a big weakness, as the throttle pedal seems like it's not connected to anything. Is this better at all in the 997?

 

[Beedub]

Interesting comparison. What are your thoughts on throttle pedal feel?
I think the Z4M pedal feel is a big weakness, as the throttle pedal seems like it's not connected to anything. Is this better at all in the 997?

thats the first time I've ever read someone comment on that.... are you sure your pedal spring isn't broken???

 

[abar121]

I can only think your're comparing the throttle to something that isn't drive by wire. i.e. has a cable throttle.

The Z4M throttle is a lot quicker to react and is more responsive than most of it's age. Certainly a lot less delay than other E85/6s in my experience.

The DBW throttles on the GT86 and ND MX5s are better. But then they've had another ten years to think about it

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Very interesting discussion.

....Just to add, a friend both a Z4M Coupe and a lovely 996 MK1 GT3. Both in rude health and made for a fantastic comparison. Surprisingly, the Z4M was just a little quicker on acceleration and would always edge away.

I used to regularly go head to head with a 996 GT3 on a variety of tracks, and my Z4MC was the faster car (at the time it was only lightly modified from stock). The 997 GT3, however, was a different proposition!

I can only think your're comparing the throttle to something that isn't drive by wire. i.e. has a cable throttle.

The Z4M throttle is a lot quicker to react and is more responsive than most of it's age. Certainly a lot less delay than other E85/6s in my experience.

The DBW throttles on the GT86 and ND MX5s are better. But then they've had another ten years to think about it

I hate the fly-by-wire throttle of the ///M - I wish it were simple to change it to a cable setup. It makes heel-and-toe much more difficult than it needs to be and I'm convinced that the nature of the throttle response during the early part of the pedal travel is the reason why the ///M is difficult to drive at low speed with a cold engine. The only circumstance in which it really works well is at ten tenths on the track, and I suspect that is a reflection of not needing precise throttle modulation during that early part of pedal travel when driving hard.

 

[petrolhead88]

thats the first time I've ever read someone comment on that.... are you sure your pedal spring isn't broken???

Definitely not. I've found other M cars to be the same, and a friend with an E46 M3 had the same comments about his car.

As other forum members have now commented, it's difficult to modulate throttle and feed in the power.
I'd say this is the biggest downfall of the Z4M, the rest of the car is sublime.

 

[nickw6666]

I don't believe the Z4M throttle is difficult to modulate in non-sport setting.

The throttle response is amazing from the engine and the pedal well matched against that.

In sport mode setting, I think the throttle is too aggressive. I've used my car on track and I've found the throttle response and pedal action really good.

 

[nickw6666]

Time to post a few pics of my Z4M coupe and 911 997 Gen1 C2S which I've comparing as part of this thread.

 

[Beedub]

I don't believe the Z4M throttle is difficult to modulate in non-sport setting.

The throttle response is amazing from the engine and the pedal well matched against that.

In sport mode setting, I think the throttle is too aggressive. I've used my car on track and I've found the throttle response and pedal action really good.

totally agree tbh.

 

[Gustavo7]

Indeed the throttle sensitivity in sport mode is very high.

It's virtually impossible for someone who doesn't know the car well to drive smoothly in sport mode.

sport mode + cold engine don't match, but then why would one be on sport mode with cold a engine eheh

it was only after many many hours of driving that I started to extract joy from the sport mode and I do press the button when driving in a more spirited way now, and it does work best with DSC off. Best way to describe it: if guns had a sport mode your finger would be pressing the trigger at all times, just not the enough to pull it.