Z4M BBK advice

[BMWZ4MC]

As many of you know, I'm living in Sydney until next year and I'm stock piling parts to fit to my ///M once I'm home. The plan is to upgrade suspension and brakes before fitting a supercharger. I've now bought all of the suspension parts and I'm looking at big brake kits. The problem I have is the the AP BBK I want is hideously expensive and not that easy to source new or second hand.

Can anyone give me advice about AP brakes as well as alternatives such as Stoptech (also pricey). I've seen an Alcon setup on eBay that is a much more reasonable price. It has 6 piston calipers front and 4 rear. It's sold as an E46 M3 / CSL kit, but I'm sure it would fit the Z4M without much hassle. I know nothing about Alcon but iirc mmm-five mentioned them as a potential option for his car. Has anyone any experience with this manufacturer?

My single aim is fade-resistant, reliable and predictable braking from extremely high speeds on the track. I would tolerate noisy brakes and even poor initial performance when cold. Cosmesis is not of importance to me. Any advice will be gratefully received!

These are links to the Alcon BBK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121170065415?redirect=mobile

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121170066519?redirect=mobile

Thanks

 

[Beedub]

alcon are TOP notch...... buy with confidence that they are serious braking kits!! The only thing is i like the BBK kits that allow you to slot in the pads from the removable bridge section, it allows super fast pad changes in literally 10 mins once the wheel is off....

Now Some serious inside advice here so listen up.... this above issue MAY sound minor BUT.... the clubsport rear damper has a remote canister connected to the base of the damper, with monoblock caliper you'd very very likely have to remove the damper too to do brake pad changes as the remote canister MAY block the bolts for the caliper, however, this is easily solved but loosening the bottom bolt for the shock unit and spinning the damper 90 Deg so the cannier isn't in the way..... just a heads up that this may be an issue, personally wouldn't bother me at all.

NOTE ' depending on calliper carrier this may or may not be an issue....


you are creating a little weapon here aren't you ?????? Just wait till you drive the car with the clubsports in and good sticky tyres....

 

[Woots]

The Alcon kits look good!

 

[DONDP]

I have bumped into a few M3 / csl owners with the Alcon kit and they all seem to rate them highly, I was considering these before I went down the AP route. As Beedub says the ability to swap pads on the APs is great if you swap between road and track pads regularly.

I can point you in the direction of an AP supplier if you wanted to go brand new but I wouldn't expect much change from £4k for a complete front and rear setup...

 

[Beedub]

I can't lie, after all said and done , the AP bbk is imo the best available for the z4m, i love this setup, incredible braking performance time and time again. How about save up and buy the one you want ????

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Thanks for the advice guys. DONDP, can you PM me the details of your AP supplier please.

I'm going to have to think carefully about what I do - I'm tempted by the Alcon set up, but I hear what you're saying about monoblock calipers Beedub. Also, I know how good the AP set up is and the Alcon kit is still a bit of an unknown even if as a manufacturer they have a good reputation. The trouble is, the AP BBK would make me another £1K away from a supercharger and I'm impatient

you are creating a little weapon here aren't you ?????? Just wait till you drive the car with the clubsports in and good sticky tyres....

Your car is my inspiration Beedub - if only it was a coupe it would be perfect

 

[ga41]

Thanks for the advice guys. DONDP, can you PM me the details of your AP supplier please.

I'm going to have to think carefully about what I do - I'm tempted by the Alcon set up, but I hear what you're saying about monoblock calipers Beedub. Also, I know how good the AP set up is and the Alcon kit is still a bit of an unknown even if as a manufacturer they have a good reputation. The trouble is, the AP BBK would make me another £1K away from a supercharger and I'm impatient

If Alcon is an unknown then what does that make Stoptech? Mate you'll be happy with either one of the choices you mentioned. I've got Stoptechs and am very happy with them.

That said, a close friend with AP's on his CSL has another friend who has the Alcon CSL Cup kit on his CSL. The brake pedal with the AP's is much stiffer than the one with the Alcon's. Probably something to do with their piston diameter as the Alcon guy tried the same pads, fluid etc to get it as stiff as the AP guy's but couldn't. My Stoptechs are about as stiff as stock, maybe a bit stiffer depending on the pads and i could feel that the CSL with the AP was stiffer when i drove it. I don't know if i've confused you more... Sorry in that case! Honestly you'll be happy with whichever.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

ga, I agree Stoptech would be another unknown except a few people have fitted them to Zeds or M3s and are very happy with the performance - you're one of them
A BBK is a very expensive risk, so I'd rather buy something that has been tried and tested on our car, but I don't want to spend a fortune unnecessarily.... :dizzy:

 

[DONDP]

Thanks for the advice guys. DONDP, can you PM me the details of your AP supplier please.

I'm going to have to think carefully about what I do - I'm tempted by the Alcon set up, but I hear what you're saying about monoblock calipers Beedub. Also, I know how good the AP set up is and the Alcon kit is still a bit of an unknown even if as a manufacturer they have a good reputation. The trouble is, the AP BBK would make me another £1K away from a supercharger and I'm impatient

you are creating a little weapon here aren't you ?????? Just wait till you drive the car with the clubsports in and good sticky tyres....

Your car is my inspiration Beedub - if only it was a coupe it would be perfect

Ill drop you a PM now buddy.

 

[original guvnor]

Haven't Alcon done a lot of stuff, and built a good reputation, with massively modded Nissan GTR's? If that's the case they must be capable of producing some seriously good kits (not that AP or Stoptech can't of course).

 

[ga41]

Haven't Alcon done a lot of stuff, and built a good reputation, with massively modded Nissan GTR's? If that's the case they must be capable of producing some seriously good kits (not that AP or Stoptech can't of course).

Yep they're pretty good. If i'd found a Z4M or possibly a CSL kit available when i was looking for a BBK then i might have very well gotten one. The one advantage that AP Racing has over Stoptechs (and perhaps Alcons, but i'm not really sure) is that you can also use Performance Friction discs along with the stock AP Racing ones. You can't with the Stoptechs as Performance Friction doesn't make them in the appropriate bell (?) shape/size. The PF discs are amazing from what i read. Great performance and last a long time too. Oxidise less than AP's too. My Stoptechs are pretty decent but the inner vanes have oxidised a lot....

 

[tertius]

Haven't Alcon done a lot of stuff, and built a good reputation, with massively modded Nissan GTR's? If that's the case they must be capable of producing some seriously good kits (not that AP or Stoptech can't of course).

Yep they're pretty good. If i'd found a Z4M or possibly a CSL kit available when i was looking for a BBK then i might have very well gotten one. The one advantage that AP Racing has over Stoptechs (and perhaps Alcons, but i'm not really sure) is that you can also use Performance Friction discs along with the stock AP Racing ones. You can't with the Stoptechs as Performance Friction doesn't make them in the appropriate bell (?) shape/size. The PF discs are amazing from what i read. Great performance and last a long time too. Oxidise less than AP's too. My Stoptechs are pretty decent but the inner vanes have oxidised a lot....

Though for clarity I think that is only true for the front discs. I don't think PF make a suitable rear disc. However, you can use the standard BMW rears with the AP kit. I currently have the AP kit with PF discs up front, BMW OEM rears.

I think I posted this before but be aware there are two versions of the AP kit - the earlier one will not fit standard wheels.

 

[ga41]

You're probably correct! I've not really researched that much about the rear ones. If you're gonna upgrade to AP's it's not that much more to get a set of AP rear discs either. Maybe when you wear them down?

 

[tertius]

You're probably correct! I've not really researched that much about the rear ones. If you're gonna upgrade to AP's it's not that much more to get a set of AP rear discs either. Maybe when you wear them down?

Well I changed discs and pads all round recently, and I ended up with OEM on the rear because AP didn't have any in stock, and could only get the OEM discs. BMW are quite a bit cheaper, but they are decent discs, I have no issues with them. Of course it does mean you have grooved discs on the front and cross-drilled on the rear, so if you were OCD-minded it might bother you.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Thanks for the advice guys. DONDP, can you PM me the details of your AP supplier please.

I'm going to have to think carefully about what I do - I'm tempted by the Alcon set up, but I hear what you're saying about monoblock calipers Beedub. Also, I know how good the AP set up is and the Alcon kit is still a bit of an unknown even if as a manufacturer they have a good reputation. The trouble is, the AP BBK would make me another £1K away from a supercharger and I'm impatient

you are creating a little weapon here aren't you ?????? Just wait till you drive the car with the clubsports in and good sticky tyres....

Your car is my inspiration Beedub - if only it was a coupe it would be perfect

Ill drop you a PM now buddy.

Cheers

 

[donjon]

I have a full stoptech kit front and back and I am very happy with them. It is also worth mentioning you can get the "championship" upgrade for the stoptechs which I have and that takes the size up to 380mm on the front. You need 19s for that though. Also it wasn't cheap, got a receipt for £6500......... :|

 

[Franzino]

I have a full AP kit on my Z4M... Price, performance and fitment the AP kit was the best choice for me. AP is also a bit cheaper (in my country) then a BBK from the other main brands (Alcon, Stoptech, Brembo). Alcon and Brembo are the most expensieve. I did not look at the cheaper brands (D2, K-sport, etc). AP was also the only BBK that could fit without spacers and the front OEM CSL wheels. About AP I have read the most positieve reviews on BMW M3 models. AP was the only choice for me...

When I first got my AP kit under my Z4M, then I was not so happy with my purchase (you can find the topic on the forum). After some fine tuning (bleeding the brakes) from my specialist and driving some more miles the AP became good... Then after one year of driving with the Pagid RS4-2 (blue) I switched to Pagid RS-14 Front & RS4-4 Rear. This change in brake pads totally transformed the AP brakes. The AP kit went from good to totally awesome!!! Initial bite, fade resistance, modulation and feel is now great and everything I wanted from a BBK on track. Whatever BBK you fit, the type of brake pads also makes a really big difference... Personally; I don't recommend Pagid RS4-2!

When I don't drive on a track for a longer period of time I switch to AP street brake pads that are quiet and perform great on the street. When the wheel is of it is a 5 min job for each caliper.