Z4C to 911 possabilty

monkadill

Senior member
4 years a z4 coupe owner, love the car and it ticks every box but i fancy a change. After days pouring through the alternatives and various test drives it boils down to a 911 977. Even so I'm still not 100% sure I want to part company. Has any one taken this trip from a Z4c to a 911?

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Comes down to what you fancy and which one you like to drive most I suppose, How do the servicing costs compare between the two? I ask as a mate has a 1983 (brown) 911, a different beast altogether but some of his bills over the years make your eyes water! Good job it doesn't get used very often :cry:
 
Thats my dilemma - the 911 will be my regular drive. Say 8000 miles a year , so nothing mental. A independent Porker garage quoted 300 a full service and 500 - 600 for the big service every 5 years,tyres are 200 - 250 each and breaks are 250 disks n pads per pair. I can live with that. The test drive today was awesome - a different league. But you could loose your licence with out trying were in the Z4c I would have to work at it, if you know what i mean.
 
Had a 977 Carrera s for a year- read the 911 forum re: bore scoring, mine needed a new engine at 45k - cost the guy who bought it 7k plus,
I had warranty but for 3k max so if was a lucky escape.

Don't see why you should lose your licence any more than any other car, all down to how you drive it!
 
The issues with 911 are there but overrated happens to an estimated 2% of cars. All depends how its been treated so buying a second hand one is risky as a lot of people don't let them warm up and they struggle with oil starvation and that leads to all number of issues. Hammering the car from low temps leads to lots of damage, but I would get a warranty and make sure you get a good one if it doesn't cover up to 12k forget it. If you need an engine replacement then thats the round about cost.

The more miles you do the better, there was a study in total 911 of a group of 996 carreras that were used only for track days and race driver training at Knockhill. All had over 70k track miles which is a huge huge amount. Not one had an issue with IMS/RMS. Because the cars are thoroughly warmed up, no short drives etc so by using them the likelihood of a problem is smaller it seems to happen on relatively low milage cars that get the odd run out, but run hard and spend most of their time sat in the garage.

The S54 in the M has the similar and well documented issues, catastrophic engine failure is just as much of a risk, its the problem with all high performance engines with small tolerances. Everytime the 911 goes in for servicing they do a full oil breakdown and if there are any fragments of metal the they swap out the bearing. The RMS seal is checked every major service. Porsche will tell you that it cannot be checked without removing the engine but most Porsche specialists can check it without taking out the engine with special tools designed just for the job. RMS is a tough one because oil leaks internally so you can't tell. A lot about looking after one is about knowing the problems and treating the car as such. Be that if there are fragments of metal upgrading the bearing there are many companies with upgrade bearings.

The M is similar the half shaft bearings should be replaced by the user between 80-100k to ensure they don't start wearing and causing the same issue with fragments of metal in the oil destroying the engine. As the car gets up to that milage having an oil check and the next service is a good idea to figure out the issues.

My dad has a 2007 911 997 CS awesome motor very similar performance wise to the Z4M but the drive is in a different league IMO, but the Z is half the price so the Z is the bargain of the sport car world. Lovely car something about the way it drives like no experience Ive had.

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I think you will find that the percentage released recently by Porsche is close to 15% for M96 engine failures..Whether it be IMS failure leading to chain snap,bore scoring,D chunking of the cylinders or piston/little end slap causing the piston to contact the head.
Hartech are saying that every 3.6 and 3.8 suffers bore score,its only when it gets really bad that you start burning oil and the cylinder starts to misfire and causes EML illumination..

My advice would not to consider a 996 at all or 997.1... 997.2 or 993 or 964 are the ones to have..
 
Ye the Turbo has a different block.

Porsche have never released any figures. If they did third parties like watchdog would be all over them. Huge recalls etc that never happened.
 
I think all the GT/3,2 and Turbos all use the Mezger engine which is basically the racing series Block which is meant to be very good and strong by all accounts.

For me personally, I wouldn't have one of the problem engines, but would happily have a 996/997 with the Mezger unit in it.

I think the S54 in the z4 is very reliable by comparison as they sorted most of the issues by the time it got into the z4, but as Tom says, any second hand high performance engine is a risk. Just have to hope the owner knew what he was doing and warmed it properly!
 
That is correct.

Its another case of internet scaremongering IMO. If the car is serviced correctly these things will be caught.

There is certainly an issue but like said preventative measures ensure that your car is free from issues.

ga41 recently had catastrophic engine failure on his S54 which I'm sure was cared for well. These things happen, half shaft bearings are a renowned weakness on the S54 too with lots of cases. Because the 911 996 and 997 was the main car Porsche produced (before the cayman, panamera and cayenne) it is highlighted more so.
 
tomscott said:
The issues with 911 are there but overrated happens to an estimated 2% of cars. All depends how its been treated so buying a second hand one is risky as a lot of people don't let them warm up and they struggle with oil starvation and that leads to all number of issues. Hammering the car from low temps leads to lots of damage, but I would get a warranty and make sure you get a good one if it doesn't cover up to 12k forget it. If you need an engine replacement then thats the round about cost.

The more miles you do the better, there was a study in total 911 of a group of 996 carreras that were used only for track days and race driver training at Knockhill. All had over 70k track miles which is a huge huge amount. Not one had an issue with IMS/RMS. Because the cars are thoroughly warmed up, no short drives etc so by using them the likelihood of a problem is smaller it seems to happen on relatively low milage cars that get the odd run out, but run hard and spend most of their time sat in the garage.

The S54 in the M has the similar and well documented issues, catastrophic engine failure is just as much of a risk, its the problem with all high performance engines with small tolerances. Everytime the 911 goes in for servicing they do a full oil breakdown and if there are any fragments of metal the they swap out the bearing. The RMS seal is checked every major service. Porsche will tell you that it cannot be checked without removing the engine but most Porsche specialists can check it without taking out the engine with special tools designed just for the job. RMS is a tough one because oil leaks internally so you can't tell. A lot about looking after one is about knowing the problems and treating the car as such. Be that if there are fragments of metal upgrading the bearing there are many companies with upgrade bearings.

The M is similar the half shaft bearings should be replaced by the user between 80-100k to ensure they don't start wearing and causing the same issue with fragments of metal in the oil destroying the engine. As the car gets up to that milage having an oil check and the next service is a good idea to figure out the issues.

My dad has a 2007 911 997 CS awesome motor very similar performance wise to the Z4M but the drive is in a different league IMO, but the Z is half the price so the Z is the bargain of the sport car world. Lovely car something about the way it drives like no experience Ive had.

8154642850_7b57ce6f67_b.jpg

8043055749_5b85df1dcb_b.jpg

196574_531703797023_1852940_n.jpg


196189_531703727163_1987413_n.jpg


199033_531703772073_730843_n.jpg


189654_531703782053_1253241_n.jpg


1236437_616632349523_1025137945_n.jpg


942178_616632374473_1983798261_n.jpg


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Thanks for your reply - interesting points regarding the engine checks and the daily running of the 911. More food for thought. Respect is due for the z4c as i am not overly eager to replace her and i have a niggle at the back of my mind that i would regret the decision if i did, that says a lot about he car. Time will tell on this one.
 
Well if I was in your position I would head the Z4M coupe direction it is 90% the 911 but 10-12k cheaper for similar spec/year/milage. Having both for direct competition they are neck and neck to 135..KPH ;) then the porsche pulls away because of its bigger displacement. I would say the interiors are very similar and well built although if I were honest the 911 is getting a little old and antiquated and feels more sparse (more room, less hugging and claustrophobic, also if your a taller guy the porsche is much better) the Z doesn't feel like that but the tech certainly does but the 911s is worse it even has a sim card slot… lol

The way they drive and sound.. well the 911 is a lot louder in the cabin as the engine is behind your head, but the Zs exhaust booms more and sounds better in the interior. There is no protection on the wheel liners so you can hear every stone that hits the wheel arch which is annoying. The exhaust note without the Sports exhaust on the 911 sounds pretty poor really so a sports exhaust would be right up there on the options list, the Z exhaust sounds better than the standard 911 IMO but as soon as you turn the sports exhaust on its a gorgeous note, pops and spits, amazing. The porsche is a better drivers car and has similar quality to the Z4M both understeer both oversteer to a ridiculous amount but the 911 feels more planted and purposeful you can tell it has had 50 years of tinkering. On that note the S54 feels more perky and sounds better IMO.

The other thing to consider is the 911 has over the Z4M is the badge and the looks which I personally love. 997s are continuing to loose money atm the Zs are starting to pick up… so if you want a 911 later then they will be more affordable but if you want to buy a Z the time is now really. I bought mine nearly 3 years ago and they are holding the same retails which is positive.

ATM that is my upgrade car a 997.2 but then again it will be a long time until they are in my budget, they are holding their value very well and a good low miler GTS is 55-60k or the F type coupe! But the Z4M coupe is a big upgrade over the 3.0SI IMO when I test drove both back to back the Z4M has that special feel and certainly feels more raw and ready to put you through a hedge lol! which is the attraction for me :D
 
Z4M-2006 said:
I think you will find that the percentage released recently by Porsche is close to 15% for M96 engine failures..Whether it be IMS failure leading to chain snap,bore scoring,D chunking of the cylinders or piston/little end slap causing the piston to contact the head.
Hartech are saying that every 3.6 and 3.8 suffers bore score,its only when it gets really bad that you start burning oil and the cylinder starts to misfire and causes EML illumination..

My advice would not to consider a 996 at all or 997.1... 997.2 or 993 or 964 are the ones to have..

This always puts me off, everytime I'm in the position to buy one I research the engine issues and see the horror stories, I think the best way to own one would be to buy a Porsche approved car with the full warranty behind you which isnt cheap, otherwise personally for me, the worry of engine failure would ruin the ownership experience. :(
 
Got to love internet scaremongering :roll:

You only hear of the ones that do not the thousands that don't.
 
Sounds as if long gone are the days u could use your Porsche as a weekend racer & weekday workhorse

Despite the steering niggles, deeply regret the passing of my old Zed, though in others am pleased I moved on
 
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