Z4 SUSPENSION

A

Aeroadster

Member
Hi all!

Just went for an MOT couple weeks back and found out the bushes need replaced on the front lower wishbones/control arms. The weird thing is I replaced them this summer (August) and now they are gone (MOT inspector showed me, and they had quite a bit of play in them :( ). The car has only covered about 1500-2000 miles roughly since replacing them and they are done? The make is Lemforder. Has anybody had any problems with these bushes in the past and how long did they last you?

Bearing in mind the car is VERY LOW, I think the car has been lowered on H&R springs (these were already installed on the car when bought) and I'm unsure if it has been aligned.

I can remember when taking the old bushes off that it was extremely difficult even when trying to strike them off with a metal mallet!
When I installed the new bushes in August I had applied some fairy washing up liquid to the insides of the bushes (as recommended by alot of other members) so that they could just easily slip onto the control arm with ease. Thinking about this now, do you think that the fairy could have deteriorated the rubber inside the bushes and hence caused them to fail? :?

When I replaced the bushes in August the car felt splendid! :) But quite quickly the car felt the same again:(

I am now considering whether to buy just the bushes again or if I should go for a kit which includes lower control wishbone arms, bushes, anti roll bar drop links and top mounts. Have any you guys/gals replaced these parts and how did the car feel afterwards? I don't want to go about spending money on parts I shouldn't.

Also, any other recommendations on other suspension improvements are greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:

Thanks.
 
I've had the same thing in the past with Meyle HD bushes, they lasted less than 6 months / 3k miles.

Using w/up liquid is fine, in fact it's recommended and will have no effect on the bushes (they have a metal inner sleeve don't forget). The issue i think is that lowerd cars will slightly alter the geometry up front and may cause the premature wear.

The solution is to use poly bushes (such as Powerflex). Some people will tell you they make the ride harder, but I found they are not bad at all and they absolutely will not wear out.

By the way, remove the bush using a 3-arm puller. It takes about five seconds per side if you zip up the bolt with a impact drill. If the inside of the bush remains on the arm, just cut it off with a hacksaw.
 
Strange to see that stock bushings can fail that fast. I mean: it's like 5% of their normal lifespan.

I think it has to do with the lowering. (and maybe some with the installing).
If you read the TIS instructions they are very specific and warn that improper installment has negative effect on the lifespan.
So you have to mark the position of the old bushing.

Furthermore when you lower the car, the bushing gets more pretension. The inner part of the bushing (and the pin on the controlarm) are hexadiagonal, so the bushing only fit's a certain way. When your car sits lower, the bushing gets more strain all the time (I''m guessing that the bushing is installed in such a way that when the car sits normal, the bushing is under acceptable minimal strain).
A similar procedure is used on the rear trailing arms, where you have to align the bushings to the arm when installing.

With the PU bushings this problem is non existent (at least with the powerflex design). The bushing acts like a bearing, so the controlarm (or more accurate: the PU sleeve that goes over the controlarm) can rotate inside the bushing.

So if this is happening as I picture myself, the PU bushings will solve this problem ;)
Also PU bushings don't age, so you will keep that 'new car' steering feel.
If you use the regular powerflex front control arm bushings (with the purple inserts), the effect that the ride becomes harder is really minimal. It will feel more like when you drive a brand new car. (that is also harder than when it's a year old or so)

When trying to get the old bushing off the control arm, the BMW tool is more like a knife edge puller, but a 3 legged puller also works (I did it too with a 3 legged puller, 2 min work. It's not that tight. Getting the bushing out of the lollypop can be more difficult (pressing, grinding or whatever works))
 
Stratts said:
I've had the same thing in the past with Meyle HD bushes, they lasted less than 6 months / 3k miles.

Using w/up liquid is fine, in fact it's recommended and will have no effect on the bushes (they have a metal inner sleeve don't forget). The issue i think is that lowerd cars will slightly alter the geometry up front and may cause the premature wear.

The solution is to use poly bushes (such as Powerflex). Some people will tell you they make the ride harder, but I found they are not bad at all and they absolutely will not wear out.

By the way, remove the bush using a 3-arm puller. It takes about five seconds per side if you zip up the bolt with a impact drill. If the inside of the bush remains on the arm, just cut it off with a hacksaw.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply! :thumbsup:

I was considering buying Meyle HD bushes this time round, I guess they are no good either then... :(

I was having a look at poly bushes such as Powerflex, but I don't like the idea of trying to remove the inner sleeve from the metal housing as it's a pain in the back side!

I don't have a 3-arm puller, but I have an angle grinder which I used to rip the sleeve of the arm! :rofl:
But I'll keep that in mind next time :thumbsup:
 
GuidoK said:
Strange to see that stock bushings can fail that fast. I mean: it's like 5% of their normal lifespan.

I think it has to do with the lowering. (and maybe some with the installing).
If you read the TIS instructions they are very specific and warn that improper installment has negative effect on the lifespan.
So you have to mark the position of the old bushing.

Furthermore when you lower the car, the bushing gets more pretension. The inner part of the bushing (and the pin on the controlarm) are hexadiagonal, so the bushing only fit's a certain way. When your car sits lower, the bushing gets more strain all the time (I''m guessing that the bushing is installed in such a way that when the car sits normal, the bushing is under acceptable minimal strain).
A similar procedure is used on the rear trailing arms, where you have to align the bushings to the arm when installing.

With the PU bushings this problem is non existent (at least with the powerflex design). The bushing acts like a bearing, so the controlarm (or more accurate: the PU sleeve that goes over the controlarm) can rotate inside the bushing.

So if this is happening as I picture myself, the PU bushings will solve this problem ;)
Also PU bushings don't age, so you will keep that 'new car' steering feel.
If you use the regular powerflex front control arm bushings (with the purple inserts), the effect that the ride becomes harder is really minimal. It will feel more like when you drive a brand new car. (that is also harder than when it's a year old or so)

When trying to get the old bushing off the control arm, the BMW tool is more like a knife edge puller, but a 3 legged puller also works (I did it too with a 3 legged puller, 2 min work. It's not that tight. Getting the bushing out of the lollypop can be more difficult (pressing, grinding or whatever works))
Click to expand...

Thanks GuidoK! :thumbsup:

When I installed the new bushes in August, I approximated the position of where it should go on the control arm by looking at the other side and measuring how far the control arm popped out of the bush and repeated it on the side I was working on. This could maybe have an effect on it but not drastically I'd imagine.

I'll have a look at the PU bushings you mentioned, but I don't have a tool to remove the inner rubber from the metal housing... Unless there is another way to remove it?

Thanks.
 
From past experience of lowering cars and having to put a few right for people after DIY jobs, I've found that premature failure has been due to not compressing the suspension before tightening everything up. If the bolts / nuts are done up with everything hanging down in an uncompressed state then when the car is put back on the ground and the suspension weights up the bushes will twist. It can also give some quite odd handling characteristics.
 
Hi

Was there not something about faulty MEYLE bushes from Euro? I am sure there was a post on this stating that there was a batch that failed for some quality issues?
 
MotorcyclesFish said:
Crap - when was this meyle batch sold? I put some on my roadster after reading rave reviews about them in August.
Click to expand...

Hi

I cant find the post but it was in the last couple of weeks, someone posted a link to a euro recall on that product :cry:
 
R3AP4R said:
Hi

Was there not something about faulty MEYLE bushes from Euro? I am sure there was a post on this stating that there was a batch that failed for some quality issues?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure euro don't stock Meyle, think it was one of the cheeper bushes they sell was was recalled.

I've had Meyle fitted for over 10k without any issues and mine was lowered on H&Rs for about 4k before switching to my KW coilovers.
 
Aeroadster said:
I was having a look at poly bushes such as Powerflex, but I don't like the idea of trying to remove the inner sleeve from the metal housing as it's a pain in the back side!

I don't have a 3-arm puller, but I have an angle grinder which I used to rip the sleeve of the arm! :rofl:
But I'll keep that in mind next time :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

If you use normal bushings you still have to remove the sleeve from the housing.
The dismanteling for installing normal bushings and installing PU bushings is the same. You both need to remove the exact same old bushing (and indeed that can be a pain).
For the installment of PU bushings you can buy the powerflex bushings preinstalled (just as you can with normal bushings) for an extra fee:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-SERIES-E46-FRONT-SUSPENSION-ARM-REAR-POWERFLEX-BUSHES-FITTED-HOLDERS-MTECH-/161213234286
This might be a good option if you dont have a press and dont have a strong pneumatic dremel to grind through the outer shells (or dont want to go that route; it'll take you an hour or so)

Normally the installment of PU bushings is easier than installing normal bushigs. However on these front ones (if you don't use the pre-installed ones) you have to get the (hard) black piece in the aluminium lollypops. Some people struggle with that (you have to do this with a press or with hammers, or maybe a vise might work too).
So the preinstalled ones will definately save you time in this case.
On other parts the PU ones you just slide them in by hand (like with the rear trailing arms&rear control arms)

And if you're worried about the costs of a 3 legged puller.... dont :lol:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-3PC-3-LEG-JAWS-REVERSIBLE-GEAR-HUB-PULLER-TOOL-SET-3-4-6-PULLERS-/201101885179

You cannot tinker decently on cars if you don't have some various sized pullers lying around ;). You can't even get your wiperarms off (like if you want to clean behind the cowling) without a puller ;). So stuff like this is more or less essential to have when working on cars.
You also use these cheap pullers if you need to modify a puller to do a specific job. Better this than grinding on a £100 kukko.
 
R3AP4R said:
Hi

Was there not something about faulty MEYLE bushes from Euro? I am sure there was a post on this stating that there was a batch that failed for some quality issues?
Click to expand...

Hi! Yes I do remember this. But I'm sure it wasn't Lemforder or Meyle bushes, it was some other cheap make.

Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
GuidoK said:
Aeroadster said:
I was having a look at poly bushes such as Powerflex, but I don't like the idea of trying to remove the inner sleeve from the metal housing as it's a pain in the back side!

I don't have a 3-arm puller, but I have an angle grinder which I used to rip the sleeve of the arm! :rofl:
But I'll keep that in mind next time :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

If you use normal bushings you still have to remove the sleeve from the housing.
The dismanteling for installing normal bushings and installing PU bushings is the same. You both need to remove the exact same old bushing (and indeed that can be a pain).
For the installment of PU bushings you can buy the powerflex bushings preinstalled (just as you can with normal bushings) for an extra fee:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-SERIES-E46-FRONT-SUSPENSION-ARM-REAR-POWERFLEX-BUSHES-FITTED-HOLDERS-MTECH-/161213234286
This might be a good option if you dont have a press and dont have a strong pneumatic dremel to grind through the outer shells (or dont want to go that route; it'll take you an hour or so)

Normally the installment of PU bushings is easier than installing normal bushigs. However on these front ones (if you don't use the pre-installed ones) you have to get the (hard) black piece in the aluminium lollypops. Some people struggle with that (you have to do this with a press or with hammers, or maybe a vise might work too).
So the preinstalled ones will definately save you time in this case.
On other parts the PU ones you just slide them in by hand (like with the rear trailing arms&rear control arms)

And if you're worried about the costs of a 3 legged puller.... dont :lol:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-3PC-3-LEG-JAWS-REVERSIBLE-GEAR-HUB-PULLER-TOOL-SET-3-4-6-PULLERS-/201101885179

You cannot tinker decently on cars if you don't have some various sized pullers lying around ;). You can't even get your wiperarms off (like if you want to clean behind the cowling) without a puller ;). So stuff like this is more or less essential to have when working on cars.
You also use these cheap pullers if you need to modify a puller to do a specific job. Better this than grinding on a £100 kukko.
Click to expand...

Thanks GuidoK! :thumbsup:

I've never had to remove the rubber sleeve's from the metal housings before, I bought Lemforder bushes with the sleeves already installed in the metal housings.

Thanks for the link to the pre-installed bushes :thumbsup: They will be useful to me.

And I have never needed to use a 3-arm puller to remove my wiperarms, but I agree, you never know when they could come in handy!

Thanks!
 
Jonny essex said:
Powerflex bushes and loose the easy cheap lowering spring route and get coilovers instead, the suspension was designed to sit at the oem ride height so coilovers reduces any unnessary strain and firm ride with a better ride and same desired look.
Click to expand...


Yes, Powerflex bushes it is. But for the coilovers, bit hard to find some at a decent price! :( Maybe in the future.
 
Dewi said:
From past experience of lowering cars and having to put a few right for people after DIY jobs, I've found that premature failure has been due to not compressing the suspension before tightening everything up. If the bolts / nuts are done up with everything hanging down in an uncompressed state then when the car is put back on the ground and the suspension weights up the bushes will twist. It can also give some quite odd handling characteristics.
Click to expand...

This - a very common mistake.
 
TheHoff said:
Dewi said:
From past experience of lowering cars and having to put a few right for people after DIY jobs, I've found that premature failure has been due to not compressing the suspension before tightening everything up. If the bolts / nuts are done up with everything hanging down in an uncompressed state then when the car is put back on the ground and the suspension weights up the bushes will twist. It can also give some quite odd handling characteristics.
Click to expand...

This - a very common mistake.
Click to expand...

REALLY!? :o

I never knew this could have such a negative effect! :?

I'll keep that in mind for next time. Thanks for the advice! :thumbsup:
 
I have a similar problem...... My car isn't lowered and is standard suspension wise (as far as I know) and got it up on ramps the other day while replacing wheel arch trims to have a good poke about and check underneath for a quick once over with my mechanic friend... Everything fine apart from the lower wishbone bushs (I have basic knowledge of this so please ask if I've missed any details...) they gave the wheels a fair bit of play and when jemmied with a bar(gentley) I could see how much play there was at the bush!! :(. (It's 2008, 55k miles if that matters?)

Anyway he pretty much told me they needed doing Asap! But it being xmas and new year etc it wasn't practical as was going to be shut etc so nows the time to sort it.

He recomended i buy a whole new wishbone and bush set as he had just that week done the same job on the other mechanics bmw and had severe difficulty removing the bush and ended up grinding and chopping and ended up needing a new wishbone anyway so it would be benificial for me to buy the whole set up front to save time(but costs more :( ) we were stood next to the scrap pile in the corner of the workshop and he held the old broken ones they removed from the other bmw and I could see what he meant.

So how much should a new wishbone and bush set cost and is the whole set up necessary?
Any particular makes or options I should look out for?
He quoted £333.78p for the bottom arms fitted (I already owe £85 for fitting 4 wheel archs and rocket cover gasket etc so it's only £250 for the arms and bushes fitted, is this a fair price? And should I ask him to use a certain make/brand?

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for the help
 
Hmmmm, I did my wishbone bushes last week. I removed them with a 3-arm puller (Halfords), one came off easily inside two or three minutes, the other split when coming off, but even so I just had to remove two bits rather than one, so that took about 10 minutes.

This is on my driveway with the car on axle stands. A lot of people aren't aware you can remove them this way, but it's a proven method and avoids the need to remove the wishbone. The wishbones generally only fail because of the bushes (I.e. They transmit too much vibration to the balljoints) so if you're wishbones are ok then there should be no need to replace the whole thing.

I've done this on three different cars and it is in all honesty a one hour job all in. One thing that is more difficult is fitting new bushes, but I got round that by using Poly bushes which are much easier and just push straight on.
 
Stratts said:
but I got round that by using Poly bushes which are much easier and just push straight on.
Click to expand...

Which poly bushings (brand) do you use that pop easily in the lollypops?
 
No, I meant they push straight on to the wishbone. You need a press to fit the bushes into the lollipops in any case.
 
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