Z4 3.0i - suspension geometry figures?

a11y

Veteran
 Central Scotland
Does anyone have a copy of the suspension geometry figures for a pre-facelift 3.0i SE Z4 roadster?

I'm planning to get mine set up again once I arrange fitting of my uprated bushes (I've only had them sitting in the garage for 9 months...). The place I use should have the figures from their Hunter machine/computer, but I always like to go armed with the stock figures as a back-up.

Also, any suggestions for figures/changes that will improve the handling - turn-in, steering feel, progressive handling - would be much appreciated. I've already removed the bolt from the front top-mounts to allow extra camber on the front (approx 1.5 deg neg I believe) but wondered what other Z4er's would recommend for a fast road set-up with no track use.

Cheers :)
Ally
 
Don't know if this help's Ally but it's the print out from when i had my alighnment done earlier in the year, I know my car is the 2.5 but it had the M Suspension specced on it, the same as the 3.0 I think
CarGeometry.jpg


Hope it's of some use.

I know it's not that clear, I'm sure someone will be along shortly with exactly what your asking
 
Can just about read that - thanks Richard :). Identical style printout to what I get from my local place so guessing they must have the correct Z4 values in their computer too. Your figures are about what I'd expect the Z4's figures to be like, although that's going on my limited knowledge in this area! Camber sounds about right but is that toe in or tow out when it's showing with a + (I can never remember).

Visually looking at mine I'd say I've got a serious amount of rear camber at the moment, can't be doing my tyres any good...

Anyone got the official BMW figures I can use?
 
I have the official figures at home for 3.0i on 18", I'll post later if someone else hasn't already.

Cheers

Dave
 
Front toe 0 14' +/- 8' 0.097 > 0.23 > 0.363
Front camber -57' +/- 20' 0.62 > 0.95 > 1.28

Rear toe 0 22' +/- 6' 0.27 > 0.37 > 0.47
Rear camber -2 50' +/- 15' 2.58 > 2.83 > 3.08


All toes are toe-in (ie, wheels pointing towards centre line)

As you can see, the rear camber is stupendously high. I reckon getting this to the lower end of the scale is ideal.

The Aplina data here:
http://www.bmwauto.net/forums/bmw/p/176424/changing_z4_alignment

...has similar camber, just about half a degree less all round (likely gets rid of the nervousness somewhat on bumpy roads, and also slightly different toe settings)

Experimentation will be key, especially since you have left the RFT's behind now. My fronts are wearing nicely, so tempted to just dial out that 1/4deg camber at the back and tuck right up to the lower limit, since the insides are wearing quicker at the rear.

Dave
 
Excellent Dave, many thanks.

Wow that's a hell of a lot of camber on the rear for a road car, I do agree with you that it should be possible to reduce that a bit without negatively affecting the overall behaviour of the rear. I'm a road driver after all, not a track wh0re...

I'm heading out to stop by my local garage for a chat with the guy and see if he'd fit my poly bushes - I've got the front wishbone rear bush kit plus the rear trailing arm front bush kit - as these should make the suspension geometry more coonsistent through the suspension action. The standard ones are huge lumps of soft rubber that allow a lot of extra/unnecessary flex in the suspension. Makes sense if I'm going to spend a small fortune on a suspension geo set up!
 
If someone could post up a clear printable set of figures I'd appreciate it, we've been trying ( without success) to find out how much rear camber adjustment would be required to get our Z4 ( 3.0 on 18'' non RFT ) to be more compliant on the awful Hampshire roads. We have approached our local dealer but its difficult to get them to talk about the Z4's rear camber issue let alone getting them to adjust it.
Would it be better at the lower end of the scale? say 2.58 or 2.83 ? not sure what figure represents the lower end :oops:
Thanks in adance of any info or advice,
Cheers,

Dave.
 
Update: stopped by the garage yesterday and he'll fit the bushes for me no probs. Turns out he does a bit of work with BMWs already - there was a 330d M-Sport convertible on the ramps when I arrived. He said a lot of folk fit the M3 bushes as they're harder than the standard Z4 ones, but said I should only see a small increase in ride harshness from the poly bushes I'm getting him to fit.

Only problem is he' mega busy so likely to be mid/end November before he can fit me in. He was quite happy to offer advice, and his thoughts match with what I'm considering. I'm not all that clued up about every single effect of camber and toe, but from my limited understanding (and having a good read of that Alpina link above - good read) these are our thoughts. All comments and advice welcomed.

- less neg camber on the rear, perhaps around -1.5/2.0 deg (to make the rear better behaved and less nervous over bumpy roads)
- more neg camber on the front, perhaps around -2.0 deg (improving steering feel plus turn in)
- a small amount of toe-out at front (improving turn in)
- a small amount of toe-in at the rear (as toe out at the rear would give a more mobile rear end, i.e. more tramlining)

I'm not sure about toe-out at the front as although this will improve turn-in, surely it will make the car tramline a bit more as a result? Sorry, my knowledge is too limited...

He did mention adjustment plates for the front as a future modification - I think he meant so that the castor could be increased and give more weight to the steering, but I'll clarify that later.

Ally
 
Toe out at the front, imho, seems a bit odd for a fast road car.

The loaded outside wheel will actually take longer/more lock to get a slip angle for lateral force than it did before. I'm not really sure on the intricacies, but on a track with slicks where you want to be on the ball all day long, great, a bit more response, but on a road car with softer tyres and fundamental setups for toe in compromises means going out might be a bit odd!?

I'd not add front camber all at once.

ONE change at a time seems a sensible course to take. The Alpina thread is a tad inaccurate too, a stiff front ARB will add understeer. Alpina likely do that to cancel out the loss of rear camber. They lose the lateral thrusting and movement, but keep it neutral/understeery.

Pretty sure it is toe in at the rear already.


Lastly, half the issue of the car is the kinematics, iirc, the Z4 puts on negative camber two to three times faster than the front under bump, so the back end get alot of grip benefit vs fronts when you roll onto the outsides in a bend.

What you need to do is find the sweet spot.

*Personally* I'd use good old scientific method to get where I want to be. BMW will have done road tests, changed one variable, tested again, changed one thing, tested again.
Of course, this is tough to do and expensive potentially, but it will get you what you want imho.

How about getting it done with 0.75deg less rear camber to start with, and everything else OEM?

See how it goes. You can always wind on/off equal amounts on the control rods once it is setup right. Work out which way to add/remove rear camber, and have a play yourself. Just note down the changes you make from OEM settings. Ask the operator when setting it up to get to OEM, then adjust to 0.75deg less rear camber, and note the amount of turns to get an idea of the adjustment sensitivity in that range.

Then you can have a play.


Making ALL those other changes in one go may feel terrible, and you will have no idea what bit is making it like that.

Alpina took out rear camber = oversteer, then added front arb = understeer... so cancelling the change out. BUT, they added a bit more worse front end ride comfort on bumps (less independence of front suspension movement, not a huge cost), with much improved lateral thrusting/ride comfort from the back by getting away from oodles of neg rear camber!


That said, what springs are you using again, same stiffness or different? Being lower you will have added more rear camber than at the front to start with due to the kinematics of the suspensions.

Personally on that I'd be very sensitive to changes. You could end up with a complete mess if you change too much all at once without really considering each change one at a time :)
It's easy to think of things as statics, but the dynamics is what matters more. Where the wheels move when the suspension moves, not just how it looks steady state when sat still!

Dave
 
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