Z4 3.0 Si engine ticking noise?

[srhutch]

glad to hear you got sorted, hopefully that will do it over the long term for you but from what I have read the only 'real' fix is the redesigned head brought out in 2009.

Problem is they stopped replacing the heads, mine was done in April 2009 but from what I have read by September they only replace the HVA's, I'm guessing it's down to cost and the hope that only a few of those with replaced HVA's will have further issues.

Certainly the new head works as mine sits for long periods and I have not had any issues since.

Touch wood, fingers crossed etc...

 

[Taz]

every time i read about this i get a shiver up my spine

only ever had this happen once i'm in 2 minds

1 part of me hopes i never hear it again, another part of me hopes it comes back severely - this way i can get it sorted under warranty

 

[doofus4000]

ahh ok I see, I was under the wrong impression for what the fix was. Fingers crossed indeed matey

glad to hear you got sorted, hopefully that will do it over the long term for you but from what I have read the only 'real' fix is the redesigned head brought out in 2009.

Problem is they stopped replacing the heads, mine was done in April 2009 but from what I have read by September they only replace the HVA's, I'm guessing it's down to cost and the hope that only a few of those with replaced HVA's will have further issues.

Certainly the new head works as mine sits for long periods and I have not had any issues since.

Touch wood, fingers crossed etc...

 

[doofus4000]

every time i read about this i get a shiver up my spine

only ever had this happen once i'm in 2 minds

1 part of me hopes i never hear it again, another part of me hopes it comes back severely - this way i can get it sorted under warranty

Mine has started to do it reguarly of late, only after 4 or so short cold engine starts. A good run seems to solve it but its a real pain in the ass as you have to take it out and rag the nuts of it through a few gears. Definitely stays away if you keep using it for long runs from each cold start, problem with me is I cant avoid the short runs and it comes back in a few more short runs.

Does anyone know what the HVA replacement fix costs fitted and all?

 

[Z4Nick]

Hi, my first post here although I've been reading the forums for a while.

Just thought I'd say what I know re this issue. I was at the dealership today chatting with our service advisor while waiting for my car. Mine has been ticking on and off for a while and the wifes x3 has begun doing it sporadically. They both have the 3.0si engine so i asked about what he knows. It would seem they have replaced a lot of lifters for this problem now. However when I asked if that fixes it for good. He said no, it may not last but they have no other option. No mention of a new head.  

He then went on to assure me that there is no damage incurred by the ticking and it's purely a comfort/cosmetic problem. He basically said that the best way to treat the engine is keep the rpms up around 3k. No need to thrash (unless you want to), but don't baby it. Should disappear within a mile. 

He also said of all the cars fitted with this engine, they have seen way more z4s with lifter problems than any other models. 

Both our cars are still under warranty and he was happy to schedule the lifter job without any drama in terms of proof etc, but couldn't guarantee the problem would go away forever.  My experience mirrors other peoples at this point, a good run cures the tick for a few days until the car does a couple of short journeys. If ours were ticking all the time regardless of use I would definitely schedule the car in for the fix. I asked how much it would be out of warranty, he wasn't sure. Obviously this is a labor intensive procedure so probably several hours labor on top of maybe 500 in parts.

Was all a bit depressing really. We like both our cars, and the prospect of just putting up with the noise once we are out of warranty isn't exactly thrilling. 

N

Sorry, don't mean to dampen the mood.  :?

 

[srhutch]

Hi and welcome Z4Nick, What your dealer has said is correct, the only real cure is a head replacement as this has been modified, but as I've said before they are trying to cover it with the cheapest option in the hope it fixes most cars.

I don't believe for one minute though that no damage will occur as the cam is smacking against the cam follower every revolution where as with the car running correctly the follower is always in direct contact (apart from the oil between) which will reduce wear.

My car also never does short journeys so that was never an issue, but as it isn't used everyday which gives the oil more time to drain out of the HVA's.

To answer doofus4000 question all I can say is the complete head assembly replacement cost was £3,500, but I would be pressing BMW for a contribution if I were you. Use the evidence on here and the other forum I have posted about.

 

[doofus4000]

z4 nick - if I were you (saying as you have warranty remaining) I would getting them to do all they would to try and fix the issue as it would be free of charge.. i.e. get them to change the hva elements and if the ticking comes back, demand the new head - they cant deny that if that is the true fix and you have evidence of that. The one thing that was puting me off buying a used car was the lack of warranty and it has come back to bite me in the bum.

srhutch - I agree with you, how something which was once cushioned with oil and then without means that there has to be some sort of minor damage occuring each time it comes into contact. I cant see BMW contributing much to be honest and that puts me off even asking about it, Ill live with it

 

[srhutch]

I cant see BMW contributing much to be honest and that puts me off even asking about it, Ill live with it

With it being a common issue and more so as tie goes on the more BMW may help, I still say the outcome of issues like this depends on your relationship with your dealer. If you do ask let us know how you get on.

 

[Z4Nick]

Thanks guys.

Yes, your right I should really get them both seen to while under warranty. At this point the noise does not appear often enough for me to easily get it diagnosed. In your position, i don't exactly what i would do. A few years (4 or 5) back in the UK (in the US now) I had a "new" head put on a 330ci with 140k miles due to a crack. That cost 1500quid at an indy shop, I believe they transfered over the cams, vanos and other stuff. The head was also a reconditioned/crack tested unit not brand new from BMW. I should imagine the labor time is similar for the lifter job.

On the subject of good-will, before the 330, had a 328 and a 320 estate, which both developed piston knock due to worn nikasil liners. Those cars were out of warranty by a long way (2yrs at least), but the dealer replaced the block+pistons as a good will gesture. That again was a known issue. Can't remember if it was a recall though.

I also agree that the metal on metal tick is not healthy and do not believe that there is no damage being done, I have seen a couple of pictures of the cams and followers stripped down for new lifters and there are clearly score marks on both. The only other thing i have read is that switching to thinner oil may improve the situation... I saw one post from someone who changed to using Valvoline synpower (? or something like that) 5w30 and had no further tick problems. From the spec sheets i think the rough figures for viscocity of BMW Hipo 5w30 @100C is something like 12.2cst and the Valvoline is 10.Xcst. I would have thought, thicker oil would have greater pressure and therefore be better for the lifters, however its possible the oppsite is occuring - a thinner oil gets into the lifters sooner perhaps. Also maybe worth a try.

Sorry, long post.

 

[srhutch]

I would have thought thinner oil would have been worse as it will drain out of the HVA's quicker which I believe is the main issue.

 

[doofus4000]

hmm ill maybe give the dealer a go and see what they say. will keep yous posted if I get round to it.

as for the oil type; my car is due an oil change soon, should I be going for the 0-30 standard or should I give the thinner 5-30 a go?

 

[srhutch]

I would keep with the BMW spec oil if you are going to pursue it with them

 

[Z4Nick]

I would keep with the BMW spec oil if you are going to pursue it with them

+1 I would try the dealer first and stick with the BMW oil. I believe the BMW oil is already 5w-30 (maybe just in the US). Two different oils with 5w-30 specs can have slightly different viscocities, the 5 and the 30 imply a range of viscoties at 40C and 100C i think. Happens that the valvoline is towards the bottom of the hot range while BMW Hipo is more towards the top. I too would have thought the thicker oil would be better but the post I read seemed convinced that the switch had cured his ticking.

 

[doofus4000]

Just like to add for anyone experiencing this problem - recently changed my oil from the standard Edge 5-30w to the Redline 0-30w ester based stuff. It seems to have done the trick in curing the ticking noise..many many cold starts and short runs and no ticking as yet. Fingers crossed it stays this way and if so, a cheap fix!

 

[Poo]

sorry to hear about this...,actually vehicle can make noise if there any damage in the car or a part in your car is malfunctioning.

 

[Poo]

sorry to hear about this...,actually vehicle can make noise if there any damage in the car or a part in your car is malfunctioning.

 

[tommy]

Hi had same problem with my 2008 2.5 z4 reported to Dealer who spoke to BMW and they changed exhaust hyd lifters as this is a known problem but after repair run for two weeks ticking came back so returned to Garage they spoke again to BMW and replaced cylinderhead found dealer very helpful car under warranty HarryFairbairns Irvine Ayrshire

 

[Taz]

i almost want mine to fail, then i can get it done under warranty

 

[srhutch]

Hi had same problem with my 2008 2.5 z4 reported to Dealer who spoke to BMW and they changed exhaust hyd lifters as this is a known problem but after repair run for two weeks ticking came back so returned to Garage they spoke again to BMW and replaced cylinderhead found dealer very helpful car under warranty HarryFairbairns Irvine Ayrshire

how long ago was this?

 

[Taz]

surely all zeds are the same lenghth?