Winter wheels 35is

ronk said:
The same reason there are laws about crash helmets and seat belts! Some people have to be protected from themselves.

Winter rubber is designed to perform at 7deg and below - ie most of the winter on mainland UK . You don't say where you live?

It brasses me off when I get stuck behind somebody in the snow who is ill equipped for the coditions - there are penalties in Germany for causing problems like that. :thumbsup:
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I live in North Wales,

It doesn't sit below 8 for long and I can only remember one year where the snow stuck on the roads.

Mostly it sits around 10'C and is damp. For winters to out perform standard summer tires the temps need to be below 7'C. Compared to the Michelin PSS I imagine the gap widens.

I don't think it's severe enough to pass a law requiring winter tyres. I expect low grip in cold conditions and drive accordingly. Having the rear end flying around on warm days is something more likely to put me in a ditch!
 
R.E92 said:
ronk said:
The same reason there are laws about crash helmets and seat belts! Some people have to be protected from themselves.

Winter rubber is designed to perform at 7deg and below - ie most of the winter on mainland UK . You don't say where you live?

It brasses me off when I get stuck behind somebody in the snow who is ill equipped for the coditions - there are penalties in Germany for causing problems like that. :thumbsup:
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I live in North Wales,

It doesn't sit below 8 for long and I can only remember one year where the snow stuck on the roads.

Mostly it sits around 10'C and is damp. For winters to out perform standard summer tires the temps need to be below 7'C. Compared to the Michelin PSS I imagine the gap widens.

I don't think it's severe enough to pass a law requiring winter tyres. I expect low grip in cold conditions and drive accordingly. Having the rear end flying around on warm days is something more likely to put me in a ditch!
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I thought you were going to say Devon :)

I live in the Midlands and would say daytime temperatures average in winter 10C or below for at least a couple of months with nightime temps well below 7C so I can't believe North Wales fares much better unless you live in a micro climate :)

I find the attitude in this country is precisely why it grinds to a halt when 2 inches of snow is on the ground and heroes who think summer tyres are sufficient.

Tim.
 
We talk of road temp here, not air temp. During the daytime the road temp may creep up but when the sun goes down ?
What temp is the water standing on the road? I will wager lower than 7 deg. It's as cold as that from the tap!

Have you tried using winters in the summer or warm weather? If you don't use them during the winter then probably not. I have!
They won't have you in ditch, honestly !
In reality, you.would be hard pushed to notice the difference.

I've no doubt you drive with all due caution in cold, wet or slippy conditions but not everbody does. I hope one of those who doesn't twang into the side of you or your family.
 
ronk said:
We talk of road temp here, not air temp. During the daytime the road temp may creep up but when the sun goes down ?

Have you tried winters in the summer? They won't have you in ditch, honestly !
In reality, you.would be hard pushed to notice the difference.

I've no doubt you drive with all due caution in cold, wet or slippy conditions but not everbody does. I hope one of those who doesn't twang into the side of you or your family.
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I would say road temps would be lower than air as hot air rises :? :|

Tim.








Tim.
 
Loads of good reading on the web on the matter ,
On a personal note ive been stranded in Normandy a few years back on summer rubber . The car (FWD Passat) was totally hapless in the 4/5inches of snow so for me its a no brainer , i go to France 4/5 times between now & next spring so they go on the car whatever the UK forecast is

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/winter-driving/just-how-good-are-winter-tyres

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/community/car-magazines-blogs/tim-pollard-blog2/why-some-of-us-regret-fitting-winter-tyres/

does pi55 me off somewhat though when i see lanes of cars stacked on UK motorways after a drop of snow because the majority of vehicles can't move forward on minimal snow :thumbsdown:
 
Like others have said. When it snows it's not my traction that is the issue. It's the guy behind me!

I don't like to drive when the roads are covered in snow because I don't want to have to deal with damage from others. If the road was covered in snow for several weeks each year I would certainly have them as the lack of mobility would start to become an issue.

They are certainly nice to have in the event of snow. I have a spare set of wheels for the car but I just can't see when it would be worth my while swapping them over. It's been 16'C outside today and its late October. They may offer better grip in January/February but as soon as spring comes the would go back in the garage.
 
TitanTim said:
I would say road temps would be lower than air as hot air rises :? :|
Tim.
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There are complicated formulae to show this is fact.
I'm told its one of the reasons that roads are salted when the air temp is well above freezing.
 
ronk said:
R.E92 said:
Like others have said. When it snows it's not my traction that is the issue. It's the guy behind me!
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Hence mandatory winter rubber !

QED.
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Do you not think that's a bit extreme? The cost to each individual would be huge. And most people would go for the cheapest tyre going which I'm sure a just as useless in the snow as a premium summer.

I understand places like Finland having snow chains as they have severe winters and don't salt the roads.
 
Short answer is no!

People used to run on baldy tyres some time ago so a law was introduced to say 1,6 mm minimum, was that extreme ?
(I've heard rumours that it has been suggested to be raised up to 3,0mm at some time in the future as there is strong evidence to show how a tyre performance rapidly deteriorates towards the 1,6mm)

Costs to the individual is not huge ! A set of tyres that will last for several winter season - used while the ordinary tyres are being unused?
A set of tyres will be less than your insurance excess and loss of NCB.

Be honest tho, have you never ever been required to stop quickly for whatever reason during October to March?
Stopping dustances are reduced by 5m at 20mph using winter rubber on cold wet days. 11m on icy days. That's the speed limit outside schools in this area. I would like to think my winter tyres would have afforded me the best chance to prevent a squashed child. No matter who's fault it was.
The cost of a set of tyres wouldn't matter then would it?

You raise the issue of Finland - appropriate kit for the conditions.
Like winter rubber for the UK. :thumbsup:
 
I think this is a classic 'Once you have had them, nothing else will do'. Hopefully not too many people will learn the hard way.
 
RoyE said:
I think this is a classic 'Once you have had them, nothing else will do'. Hopefully not too many people will learn the hard way.
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Or crash into me or mine! D

:thumbsup:
 
ronk said:
Short answer is no!

People used to run on baldy tyres some time ago so a law was introduced to say 1,6 mm minimum, was that extreme ?
(I've heard rumours that it has been suggested to be raised up to 3,0mm at some time in the future as there is strong evidence to show how a tyre performance rapidly deteriorates towards the 1,6mm)

Costs to the individual is not huge ! A set of tyres that will last for several winter season - used while the ordinary tyres are being unused?
A set of tyres will be less than your insurance excess and loss of NCB.

Be honest tho, have you never ever been required to stop quickly for whatever reason during October to March?
Stopping dustances are reduced by 5m at 20mph using winter rubber on cold wet days. 11m on icy days. That's the speed limit outside schools in this area. I would like to think my winter tyres would have afforded me the best chance to prevent a squashed child. No matter who's fault it was.
The cost of a set of tyres wouldn't matter then would it?

You raise the issue of Finland - appropriate kit for the conditions.
Like winter rubber for the UK. :thumbsup:
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I see the squished child argument a lot but if you truly thought like that then you would have the stickiest road legal tyres on your car during summer months and a huge set of carbon ceramic brakes.
In all the winter tyre threads I see dotted around other forums most people seem to be out buying the budget/midrange brands.

There's also people out there fitting winter tyres to cars with skinny tyres and small brakes. Infact a lot of people on E90post went out of their way to find thinner wheels to improve the grip in deep snow. Which is great for snow where you can dig in but terrible for tarmac.

I would like to see a comparison of stopping distance at 7'C between the best winter money can buy and the best summer. I think a lot more research and development goes into the higher end summer tyres.
Also a comparison of both tyres again at 0'C and 15'C. I'm betting the winter would actually significantly increase the stopping distance at 15'C which by the squished child logic is also dangerous and irresponsible.

The big problem I see with winter prep in the UK is the the fact we swing between cold snaps and warm spells. Sure the winter tyres are great when it ices over or snows but we get an equal number of days where you can walk around in a t-shirt.
 
R.E92 said:
I understand places like Finland having snow chains as they have severe winters and don't salt the roads.
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Nobody here in Finland use snowchains. And we do salt roads, but it's useless below -5C.
Snowy roads has lot better grip than icy ones.

Sometimes motorways it can be very slippery. It's quite intersting when you drive about 100km/h, press brake or gas and nothing happens except warning lights blinking on dash :P

It has been a laugh to follow your winter tire threads :poke:
 
All down to mentality at the end of the day. The very fact the weather in the UK can be unpredictable is a good reason to have winter tyres. It's like saying I won't bother fitting smoke alarms in the house as how often do have a fire but when you do you glad you did. It's just insurance for you're well being.

For me I'll delight in driving past those stuck at the side of the road :)

Tim.
 
This thread is pretty amusing to be honest.

I have winter tyres... I put them on between november/ march and earlier this year it reached 15 degrees in march and i still had them on... They work fine just wear quicker. The same cant be said for summer tyres in winter, dont work fine at all.

My winter tyres were budget falkens and they work a million times better then my eagle f1's when its wet and cold, let alone with snow.

My take on it... Better to be safe then sorry... Tyres are the only contact you car has to the road... Forget brakes and suspension in my mind tyres are the most import thing... Even if it doesnt snow anything below 10 degrees budget winters will perform better then the best summer tyres.

And skinny tyres are good for snow, and normal road use... Just not for bends... But tbh how people plan to track their car in snowy cold weather so that really matters? If you want to save a few quid get skinny winter tyres all around.




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