Wind Turbine & a Friday Poll

[WLH]

The noise... :thumbsdown:

 

[ekimj10]

Ewazix wrote a lot of true facts that are not generally known by the public and I wish him and his group all the success in fighting off the planning application.

 

[BrianD]

Voted

 

[Machine monkey]

When I studied Environmental Science we used to work out the environmental cost vs the energy benefit.

People seem to forget there is a huge energy cost to create these before they are beneficial. Digging ore, destroying forrest to get to said ore therefore creating more CO2 but less trees to recycle it, transporting ore half across the world, smelting and producing a high quality metal, transporting metal where its needed, fabrication of millions of components with most of the process above, create generators, keep the generator working with oil. Then transporting these wind turbines across the globe where they are needed then installing them with hundreds of tonnes of concrete again mined (most of our limestone is in our national parks) sent to where it is needed. They also have to have brakes installed because if the wind is too high they will destroy themselves.

So for the huge amount of global energy it takes to produce, transport and install a wind turbine VS the amount of energy they produce over their limited lifespan (25 years) the energy costs to keep them running, lubrication etc. They produce less energy over their lifetime than the energy cost to produce and keep them running.

Also bare in mind that they can only be used in a limited speed, and the amount of time it takes in a good speed of wind to produce anywhere near the amount of energy needed they become fairly pointless. There are better, less energy consuming green solutions than wind turbines. One wind turbine working for full day at maximum efficiency will produce enough energy to light 350 homes if the wind is at exactly 28 mph all day If the wind reduces to 14 mph that number drops to 35 homes If the wind drops to 13 mph that number is 20 homes. The likelihood of having a day like that is near enough impossible.

Obviously the above info depends where they are. But generally they aren't brilliant, until technology improves.

There a hundreds dotted around the valleys in Cumbria, am I against them in a visually/noise polluting way… No I think they are pretty cool but they need to get a lot better before they are a viable energy alternative.

Very try Tom people think their solar panels have no Co2 foot print either!! The chemicals used in them and to actually grow the Cristal to then slice it up to go in the thing. A guy hear at work is working on new type of panel using organic mater. They are the most efficient panels you can make right now ( still only 15% ) Once they can prove they will last 10 -15-20 years these things are going to be every where. And their wont be a need for ugly noisy wind farms ( well hopefully )

 

[tomscott]

Ye that was the government plan with the solar panel subsidies, so you sell the energy back to the grid in effect making peoples houses a power station although small for one house combined could possibly release the need of one power station . Interesting concept.

There is a lot of rather large issues that the government pull the wool over tho.

 

[bigdog]

We have a fair amount of turbines in Walla Walla Washington. Not sure if these are the same type, But the ones in Wa. have constant velocity blades that achieve full output at a relatively low wind speed. (10MPH) And decrease the angle of attack during high wind speeds. Another issue with turbines is phase pulsing. I.E. a three bladed turbine pulses as the wind near the ground is usually quite slower than at the top of it's rotation. But when the power companies start receiving turbine power to the grid they constantly have to adjust the phase to match the constant phase output of a coal, hydro, nuke power plant. If the phase is to much out it can play havoc with the grid. A 4-5 bladed turbine would of course take care of the pulsing.

Of course the "renewable" energy fad these days sounds good. But the tech just can't keep pace with us humans. Of course the hippies surly don't want us to do the math about what it would REALLY take to be weaned from fossil fuels. But Pound for pound fossil fuel packs the highest BTU punch per unit cost.

Here is a great talk about it by Brian Cox. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xoi5c5_renewable-energy-and-the-future-some-calculations_tech

The environmental movement really isn't about the environment. How do I know that? I used to belong to the Sierra club and I have quite the story about a phone call I had from the HQ in San Fran.

 

[Juiceloose]

This is one of the blades of the turbine Dr John referred to being delivered. http://www.stwater.co.uk/media/news-releases/windy-underway-at-wanlip

It is one of the tallest in the UK and an eyesore on the landscape. I work in the gas industry and on the day last winter when the most gas was transported (coldest day of year I think) it was completely still with very little or no wind. They are a waste of space and money and never generate the electricity they are supposed to.

Oppose strongly Carol!

 

[markeg]

I actually like the look of them, think they look pretty cool.... And having lived at the end of a runway, with Vulcans and Lightnings taking off (especially lightnings on reheat) I'm not sure the noise would really bother me...

Would need to hear one on full chatter before I'd make any decision in support or object.


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[Ewazix]

Ewazix wrote a lot of true facts that are not generally known by the public and I wish him and his group all the success in fighting off the planning application.

Thank you

 

[StevenH72]

I also don't think they're particularly an eyesore, yes they may not be as pretty as an unblemished countryside scene, but they aren't awful. Also, the noise wouldn't be a huge problem. My Parents like roughly 1km away from 3 turbines in Kerry and you wouldn't even know they are there.

I grew up in Reading and when the turbine was installed in Green Park, I've never visited the nearby retail park and consciously noted the turbines.

However, I would object purely based on the fact that they are hugely inefficient and not "green" energy.

Sadly, we are a growing nation and more of the countryside will need to be developed, but I would like to think that where we are developing in the countryside we are doing so effectively.

 

[Toe-side]

Some very informed comments.
The UK public are being misled by the environmental and economic benefits of wind power. Government (UK tax Payer) subsidy and profit has left the country.
The UK doesn't have a coherent energy strategy............ the cracks are starting to appear.

 

[Nanu]

We have just voted against sighting one in the middle of our Golf course. The company offered £45 K per year and free electricity. With all the subsidies they still expected to makea profit. It can't be right

 

[bluespit]

second law of thermodynamics paraphrased says 'you can't have something for nothing'. Personally I think this is where these things may have some benefit...

what if every house hold within say 500m had to pay only 50% of their energy bill and 600m 60%, 700M 70% and so on to 1000m. I don't like them in principle but acknowledge we have to pay a price for our energy consumption so what if there was a financial incentive to offset the aesthetic?

just a thought

 

[Ewazix]

second law of thermodynamics paraphrased says 'you can't have something for nothing'. Personally I think this is where these things may have some benefit...

what if every house hold within say 500m had to pay only 50% of their energy bill and 600m 60%, 700M 70% and so on to 1000m. I don't like them in principle but acknowledge we have to pay a price for our energy consumption so what if there was a financial incentive to offset the aesthetic?

just a thought

Ok but it ignores the basic issue that the damned things don't produce on demand, when you need it. e.g due to typical UK high pressure (cold/still) winter weather last week (December 2013) the UK wind farm estate produced 0.2% of UK energy instead of it's capacity of nearly 5%. Every time this happens gas but mostly coal fired has to be cranked up to make up for wind power switching off. But you and I still subsidise the the things. Even worse during the windy summer this year the grid PAID turbine operators "constraint payments" of £7.5 million for the first three weeks of August alone to turn off overproduction . Last Thursday one of the big operators RWE admitted production was "just enough to boil a kettle" and three of its sites had to be supplied with electricity to keep essential functions running! These are not blips the lifetime production of many sites averages 17% but the producers don't care, they get paid anyway.
Meanwhile the huge steel and alloy forged monstrosities still sit there on 100 ton concrete footings having been shipped half way around the world. It's a crap deal.

One alternative is to use less. By fitting a high efficiency boiler, low energy bulbs, improving insulation and switching unwanted stuff off we have cut our total consumption of gas by 50% and electricity by 20%. We saved nothing financially because the *astards jacked prices up but that's a different rant. Now please stop me

:wink:

 

[teamemmenracing]

Quite a few years ago when they were still a novelty .... They built a 2 bladed monster wind turbine outside a town called Medemblik in Holland .....
After a few years it had to come down because the low frequency woop woop woop of the blades actually started turning people crazy ..... They were actually losing their minds and it took a while to connect the 2.

Nobody has even investigated what the long term effects of windfarms close to houses will have on people ....

 

[ranski]

It will help in drying the washing?


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[Adamski]

Can't vote on Tapatalk, but do have a few thoughts on this. I've recently moved jobs, and now work for one of the "big six" as a proposition developer, one of my main objectives being to reduce carbon emissions. This has changed my view on these types of things.

I would promote sustainable energy in nearly all cases now. Unless sustainable energy sources become mainstream, there's no chance we'll be able to stop the devastating effect of climate change.

Will it look ugly? Possibly. Will it be noisy? Yes. Will they contribute to reduction of carbon emissions? Definitely.

Longer term, carbon emitting fossil fuels will run out. If we don't get the infrastructure road map for renewable energy in place now, it's a bleak future for the next generation.

I'm fully aware that my petrol head hobby is damaging to the environment, but now have a clean conscience as my work will soon counter the effect of my heavy right foot


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[lux]

I wouldn't want one near me.
An old mate of mine sells these in Harrogate and is raking it in selling loads of them, as the government pay farmers to stick them up on their land!!

Iceland have got it sorted, but they do get over 5000 earthquakes a year!!

Five major geothermal power plants exist in Iceland, which produce approximately 26.2% of the nation's energy. In addition, geothermal heating meets the heating and hot water requirements of approximately 87% of all buildings in Iceland. Apart from geothermal energy, 73.8% of the nation’s electricity is generated by hydro power, and 0.1% from fossil fuels.

(I listened on the trips )

 

[Reedster]

We had a number of them at Carland Cross in Cornwall. After a few years they have put up larger ones and guess what the old ones were given to the Czech's. They are popping up more down here and you can see the next lot from where you are. Bloody solar panels p1ss me of also, fields are for growing / grazing.
Previous mentioned energy cost to build etc is never recovered. You want to keep warm put on another jumper.

 

[StevenH72]

I'd like to see a bigger effort directed towards tidal power. Tides are very predictable, so it will be easier to plan how much power to generate. We alsoi wouldn't have the onshore issues of noise and aesthetic issues.

That said, I'm not an engineer so have no idea about the problems / feasibility of tidal power.