Wife redlined the car in second gear....yikes

[Tweed]

Double declutching can lengthen the life of the clutch if you're good at it... But I would imagine with the technology gone in to our cars, the saving would be so minimal as to be pretty much non-existant

Bit of heel & toe sounds cool though 8)

 

[Smokin]

I routinely shift from 6 to 3, but only when slowed to take a turn into side streets.

Rev limiter while upshifting will get your attention, but shouldn't hurt the engine. Of course, I wouldn't make a habit of it.

 

[mrklaw]

when I did my test (which was around '95), they told me 'mirror, indicate, position, speed, gear'. I.e you move over, slow down to your desired speed, then select a gear for that speed. They didn't teach anything about stepping down the gears while slowing for normal day to day driving.

 

[mikedav]

They didn't teach anything about stepping down the gears while slowing for normal day to day driving.

Yup, same for me in 99. We would drive up to a junction in third, stop, select first. Entirely wrong! Instructor told me it's an over simplified technique to get you safe and through your test, so you can then continue to learn alone. They didn't teach us block changing and down shifting through the box, rev matching as you go...

It's like the wheel shuffling - apparently the only reason they do that is to show you the correct speed for taking a corner, i.e. if you can't feed the wheel when taking a turn, you are going too fast; a technique 99% bin instantly once they pass of course!

 

[Smokin]

I may be wrong, but with modern engines and transmissions, going back down through all the gears isn't necessary. Heck, you can even shift into 1st before coming to a complete stop. I couldn't do that in Daddy's old pickup truck with "3 on the tree" shifting (had a heck of a spring on that clutch too)

 

[czechT698]

Smokin, yep, I undershift from 5th to 3rd all the time and so far my car did not complain Nothing like a fast and a clean overtake, we have to represent you know.... If we take over other cars too slow then they will spread the story that: "A Z4 overtook me yesterday, took him about a minute Im telling you guys, that thing is slow..." Which is not good for our cars public appeal...

 

[mikedav]

Smokin, yep, I undershift from 5th to 3rd all the time and so far my car did not complain Nothing like a fast and a clean overtake

That's called a block change....thats correct. I assume you blip the throttle as you do so too... What we mean is different, it's not changing down to match your gear to the revs, essentially driving up to traffic lights and stopping in say 3rd....that's bad practice

 

[gannet]

Smokin, yep, I undershift from 5th to 3rd all the time and so far my car did not complain Nothing like a fast and a clean overtake

That's called a block change....thats correct. I assume you blip the throttle as you do so too... What we mean is different, it's not changing down to match your gear to the revs, essentially driving up to traffic lights and stopping in say 3rd....that's bad practice

why bad practice? It is what the police do... ever read Roadcraft?

 

[EdButler]

For coming to a stop they teach 5-2-1 instead of 5-4-3-2-1 now for several reasons including better modern brakes, smoother driving, less drivetrain stress (Brakes to stop, accellerator to go).

Heeling and toeing or double declutching is deemed too complicated as it means not positioning your foot on the brake pedal fully. I started the latter only after 6 years of driving for my Austin Seven and it took me agggges!

I find it bad though, as people seem to just stay in 5th too long and then suddenly jump on the brakes, meaning less anticipation.

 

[gannet]

From Roadcraft :

Information
Position
Speed
Gear
Acceleration

Braking comes as part of 'Speed'... Information phase encompasses the whole 5 stages meaning that it could change at any time - thus your anticipation. If you change from 5-4-3-2-1 while braking.... you are way too busy at the wheel, than if you brake to the speed (or stop) then take your gear an go. Done properly it is very safe and smooth

 

[mikedav]

why bad practice? It is what the police do... ever read Roadcraft?

That's interesting, though to clarify I'm not talking about -5-4-3-2-1.... I think we agree, I would block change - 5-3-1....but they didn't teach that in 99, sounds like they do now which is good.

 

[a11y]

I passed my test in 1998 and was certainly taught to downshift in blocks - in modern cars there's absolutely no need to shift down through the gears...

 

[un1eash]

I dont tend to hit the limiter but change up about 500 rpm before but thats exactly what there for. No harming in hitting it every now and then. I love the sound my mk1 MR2 makes at 7700rpm with its K&n and Janspeed SS System.

 

[Incitatus]

I dont tend to hit the limiter but change up about 500 rpm before but thats exactly what there for. No harming in hitting it every now and then. I love the sound my mk1 MR2 makes at 7700rpm with its K&n and Janspeed SS System.

With a well maintained vehicle there's nothing wrong with using the upper limits of the rev range. Normally when I'm putting a new associate through for their IAM test they leave using far more of the rev range that when they arrived :lol:

That said I don't like anyone hitting the limiter as I think that shows a lack of awareness in their driving

 

[Smokin]

I come up to a stop by slowing down in 6th, then neutral as I brake to a stop. Engine is resting, I'm happy.


Turning onto a side street, no, I don't blip the throttle as I'm going pretty slow (relatively). I blip when actively downshifting to pass someone or when taking the twisties on the Dragon (no brakes, just throttle and shift).

 

[Z4coupebeaver]

Double declutching sounds nice and feels good as you're not relying on the syncro to do the work for you.

I've not dismantled a Z4 box but I suspect our gearboxes are not much changed form the 1960s but once you've reached that technology, there's no need to DDC.

Manual boxes of the 60s and early 70s got a bad reputation because of poor design (too small bearing surfaces on bits like main shaft tips etc) added to poor materials.

The box in my GT6 is only good for about 40K miles with only 95 BHP (although it is torque more than peak power that kills a box).

 

[Anonymous]

I passed in 84 and was taught block shifting when approaching a left turn, a practice i still use to this day, when slowing to a stop i tend to engage neutral and coast to a stop. so far no damage, On the subject of other people carrying out acts of cruelty on your car, i learned my lesson when i let my brother have a go in the Zed, he took from a cold start and redlined in 1st 2nd 3rd, Screamed up the backside of a zed 3 he saw, overtook it in 30 limit on a blind summit doing 70. Lesson learnt there for me, the only way now any one else would get to drive it is to prize the keys out of my cold dead hand. (incidently my brother and i still dont speak as he was rather embarresed when nearly ripped his throat out (verbally)in front of his kids.)

blip when actively downshifting to pass someone or when taking the twisties on the Dragon (no brakes, just throttle and shift).

Going to GA next year and hoping to make trip along the Dragon, Shame it won't be in my zed

 

[daveg]

I have redlined mine a couple of times now - once fully warmed up its no big deal.

Glad I'm not the only one. Don't aim for it but sometimes happen if I need to accelerate hard and want to be looking at the road not revs. Still learning the range so no doubt will happen less as I find where it is.

I was taught to blockshift too - approach a junction etc in whatever gear you are in and then change at the last minute depending on if you are pulling away or stopping.

 

[Siftah]

Doesnt the whole double declutching thingy help downshifts?
Or is that upshifts
No idea...its not taught nowdays obv cos there is no need..
Just a query

Double de-clutching is largely a throwback to the days when there wasn't synchro's on all the gears. Nowadays you'd only do it to lessen strain on the synchro's, but really matching the engine speed to the gear you're changing into is as much as you need to do in a road car. Track drivers still use it as a technique to get the smoothest gear change possible, keeping the car settled in a high speed corner etc.

I was also taught to come down the box whilst slowing the vehicle, both in my driving lessons (13 or so years ago) and also in IAM training (12 years ago). I don't drop into 1st though, 2nd to a full stop. Though I was taught coasting is bad as you're technically not in control of the vehicle. Also my early driving experience was in an Mini which didn't have synchromesh on first gear*

(* There wasn't a right lot of synchro left on 2nd either to be fair)

 

[Tweed]

Most the cars I drove for the first few years of Driving didn't have Syncromesh on first either, so for me it's just a given that you don't go into first until you're at a complete standstill...

And coasting is just a big no no... For both the above reason, and the previously discussed fuel usage (coasting engine uses fuel, slowing in gear doesn't).