Why do I fear the Zed?
- Thread starter t20lau
- Start date
Mr Whippy said:t20lau said:
To satisfy my curiosity what do you actually intend to 'mod'?
I've seen enough modded cars in my time to know that 99% of the time they turn out crap, so just curious what you will be doing to make the car better than it is
Dave
Wait and see...
99% of the time?! Then I must be in the Minorty, my VXR turned out ace...
Maybe my car will go into the "modding" box and come out a Z4M hahaha
t20lau said:Mr Whippy said:t20lau said:
To satisfy my curiosity what do you actually intend to 'mod'?
I've seen enough modded cars in my time to know that 99% of the time they turn out crap, so just curious what you will be doing to make the car better than it is
Dave
Wait and see...
99% of the time?! Then I must be in the Minorty, my VXR turned out ace...
Maybe my car will go into the "modding" box and come out a Z4M hahaha
Ace compared to what though?
I find it funny that you start a post saying how you are scared of your 3.0si and now you want to 'mod' it into an M version. I'm also curious as to what you're planning to 'mod'.
If you want an M then it will probably workout cheaper to sell your Si and buy a second hand M.
I don't get why people think you cannot get the best out of an M / 3.0 on public roads. What about Gallardos, F430s, GT2s? Getting the best out of it for me doesn't mean track day driving it every day - the car would last a few weeks under that punishment. It's about driving it fast and enjoying it in the prevailing conditions.
Truth is, despite the nanny state there are still thousands of miles of open country road, A roads, B roads, sweeping bends ...proper driving roads. Speed cameras? Just look for them. Slow moving traffic ahead? When safe, blip it down two gears and floor it past. IMO everywhere has something like that within a few miles. Combine that with more circuits per Sq Mile than pretty much any other country in the world for track days, where you can really exploit what a car can do, and from a drivers perspective England is very good? Sure you cannot exploit your cars 0-60 on the morning commute, but where can you?
Truth is, despite the nanny state there are still thousands of miles of open country road, A roads, B roads, sweeping bends ...proper driving roads. Speed cameras? Just look for them. Slow moving traffic ahead? When safe, blip it down two gears and floor it past. IMO everywhere has something like that within a few miles. Combine that with more circuits per Sq Mile than pretty much any other country in the world for track days, where you can really exploit what a car can do, and from a drivers perspective England is very good? Sure you cannot exploit your cars 0-60 on the morning commute, but where can you?
Nerra said:
The VXR was ace compared to when I originally got it! What the hell do you think its better than a ferrari?! LOL! The VXR is able to beat the 3.0si, thats how good it was...
As for your final line, thats what I was meaning! When I say "mod" I mean, maybe it'll go into "MODDING" and come out and M!!! If you look properly I have quotes round the word MOD!!!
The best way to mod, is to set out your intentions.
What is the problem with the current car, and how will you solve those issues, outline each area and the solution to alleviate that problem, with considerations for the negative impacts of those changes as well as the positive.
I worry that the fact you have already fitted unknown quantity PI lowering springs, before even knowing how the OEM stuff handles/performs, and then making judgements on the car while still a novice in it, wrt tuning/modding moving forward is a bad place to work from.
I modded my diesel Peugeot 306, and it would beat my Z4 easily down the back roads to work, partly because it was actually quite quick for what it was, because it was fairly softly setup, I sat higher up, and it had loads of mid-range power/weight, but mainly, the BIGGEST factor of them all, I was very familiar with it.
That doesn't make the Z4 wrong, infact I think it is MY inability to drive it well that makes it slower. Going changing springs/dampers and things until I can firmly put my finger on what I consider actual flaws for my driving style, would not be constructive at all.
Not having a personal dig, just trying to understand the motive for change. Unless you can state what the problems are with the way it is now, and how your changes will alleviate that, while considering the compromises that you will introduce as well (because all setups are a compromise), then I fear you will just aimlessly change things to try solve a problem you don't understand.
Usually a key motive is lowering, probably why almost EVERY suspension kit I see has a headline specification as lowering amount, while ignoring things like alignment changes, changes in bushing, maybe even control arm replacement to get better wheel control...
I honestly think most stuff you buy for road cars is just crap. Show me a suspension kit where the seller is advising new alignment specs, uprated bushings and maybe even new control arms, then I'd probably think they did their homework/testing. Show me a kit where they offer just springs, and I question why they think BMW got EVERYTHING else correct, except the spring rates and ride height :rofl:
:wink:
What is the problem with the current car, and how will you solve those issues, outline each area and the solution to alleviate that problem, with considerations for the negative impacts of those changes as well as the positive.
I worry that the fact you have already fitted unknown quantity PI lowering springs, before even knowing how the OEM stuff handles/performs, and then making judgements on the car while still a novice in it, wrt tuning/modding moving forward is a bad place to work from.
I modded my diesel Peugeot 306, and it would beat my Z4 easily down the back roads to work, partly because it was actually quite quick for what it was, because it was fairly softly setup, I sat higher up, and it had loads of mid-range power/weight, but mainly, the BIGGEST factor of them all, I was very familiar with it.
That doesn't make the Z4 wrong, infact I think it is MY inability to drive it well that makes it slower. Going changing springs/dampers and things until I can firmly put my finger on what I consider actual flaws for my driving style, would not be constructive at all.
Not having a personal dig, just trying to understand the motive for change. Unless you can state what the problems are with the way it is now, and how your changes will alleviate that, while considering the compromises that you will introduce as well (because all setups are a compromise), then I fear you will just aimlessly change things to try solve a problem you don't understand.
Usually a key motive is lowering, probably why almost EVERY suspension kit I see has a headline specification as lowering amount, while ignoring things like alignment changes, changes in bushing, maybe even control arm replacement to get better wheel control...
I honestly think most stuff you buy for road cars is just crap. Show me a suspension kit where the seller is advising new alignment specs, uprated bushings and maybe even new control arms, then I'd probably think they did their homework/testing. Show me a kit where they offer just springs, and I question why they think BMW got EVERYTHING else correct, except the spring rates and ride height :rofl:
:wink:
Mr Whippy said:
You might be right, but the lowering springs were fitted at i wanted it too look lower, not to handle better! Although the car does hold flatter round a corner!
As for modding, as explained in the post above, when I say modding i mean GET A Z4M because its a million times better than the si!
Hehe, I rekon an Z4M would be the sensible choice 
As for lowering, flatter doesn't often mean better at all. Less roll might mess up the natural bump camber/toe changes of the tyre contact patch that were nicely optimised for a smooth grip transition as the limit approached. For all anyone knows, because it's clear PI haven't told you
is that the new camber curve could start with more camber and lose it, meaning a soggy limit like a Golf IV... maybe the camber curve starts neutral and moves into more camber giving it more bite, then softening as the tyre would lose grip, and you have started the curve near the end leaving just soggy feeling from the off?
Without considering all these things you just won't know what you will get. Maybe put it back to standard and learn the car before making a choice on how it goes???
This is why I'm planning on leaving it alone, BMW have setup some rather interesting specs on the Z4, so I can only imagine it's for a good reason
Dave
As for lowering, flatter doesn't often mean better at all. Less roll might mess up the natural bump camber/toe changes of the tyre contact patch that were nicely optimised for a smooth grip transition as the limit approached. For all anyone knows, because it's clear PI haven't told you
is that the new camber curve could start with more camber and lose it, meaning a soggy limit like a Golf IV... maybe the camber curve starts neutral and moves into more camber giving it more bite, then softening as the tyre would lose grip, and you have started the curve near the end leaving just soggy feeling from the off?Without considering all these things you just won't know what you will get. Maybe put it back to standard and learn the car before making a choice on how it goes???
This is why I'm planning on leaving it alone, BMW have setup some rather interesting specs on the Z4, so I can only imagine it's for a good reason
Dave
Agree completely with Mr Whippy.
At the end of the day the 3.0 is a very capable car in the right hands, you just have to look at some of the tests done by various car programmes etc to realise that.
I'm sorry if I find it strange that your solution to no longer fearing the Zed is to upgrade to an M version.
At the end of the day the 3.0 is a very capable car in the right hands, you just have to look at some of the tests done by various car programmes etc to realise that.
I'm sorry if I find it strange that your solution to no longer fearing the Zed is to upgrade to an M version.
mikedav said:
What about the new SPECS cameras they are going to install when the new 50MPH limit supposedly comes in next year? They will monitor your speed over 6 miles!! You'll have to floor it for a couple of miles then either sit is a lay-by for a while or turn off the road before you get to the second camera!!
Thanks for everyones input here, TBH, I think we got carried away a little, basically I was simply trying to get across that I find my Z4 scary to corner in, I've have the backend out on a couple of occasions, without me actually trying, and I think this is what I was scared off, the fact I dont actually know where the car is going! But having driving the Z4M over the weekend I think the tyres deffo need to go, the inital thing I found with the Z4M was there was no tramlining, I'm guessing this is down to the tyres?!
t20lau said:
Also don't forget your car has non-standard springs and the M probably had OEM suspension.
I found the tyres to be better in the M and I also liked the weight of the hydraulic steering better than the electric steering in mine. I don't understand that though, as BMW got the electric steering spot on with the MINI? :?
Breaker said:What about the new SPECS cameras they are going to install when the new 50MPH limit supposedly comes in next year? They will monitor your speed over 6 miles!! You'll have to floor it for a couple of miles then either sit is a lay-by for a while or turn off the road before you get to the second camera!!
To cover every 'nice' country road will require a lot of money and a lot of time to fit all these cameras.
I'd estimate 10 years to do the whole job, and it'll be reversed once Labour is out of power - hence it'll never get done
Yeah my mate was telling me about the steering, maybe thats the reason I found is easier to handle?!
Either way different car totally! Which if I'm honest I wasnt expecting! I found the dash nicer /easier to look at and read too!
The gear knob illumination was pointless tho, didnt seem to light up properly...
Either way different car totally! Which if I'm honest I wasnt expecting! I found the dash nicer /easier to look at and read too!
The gear knob illumination was pointless tho, didnt seem to light up properly...
