Why do I fear the Zed?

[t20lau]

Dont understand why you keep bringing "feeling" into this! I had both the VXR and 3.0si on the same road at the same time, along side each other, with me and my friends testing...

The 3.0si was slower!

As for taking it to the limit, although I dont sit at 5000rpm in 2nd gear waiting for races, If i am wanting to give it the beans I dont leave max rev's...

So you're saying - you don't drive the car as fast as it can go, and when you do that other cars are faster... brilliant!

I'm not comparing any other car's, just the two I own!

The point is that in the Z4 i am not as confident in corners...not which is quicker really! I'd be quicker in a micra round a corner if i was more confident! the point i am trying to state is just the handling of the Z4 isnt that great! as for which is quicker, I'm not impressed by the Z4 but by all means its not slow!

 

[t20lau]

300BHP through the front wheels? Hmmm!

It's a great looking hatch but it does nothing for me I'm afraid. FWD is fool proof because when you push too hard it just ploughs straight on. RWD is more challenging and infinitely more satisfying, and all proper sports cars are RWD - FWD is a packaging compromise. IMO, it's the way the car feels to drive. If all you want is BHP to tell your mates, powwwwwer and a car that's hard to screw up in, go buy a Scooby and tune the **** out of it.

The 3.0 Z4 is a perfectly quick car - there are quicker and there are slower. Personally I wouldn't care if it was slower than an Astra - the other car is an Astra. Just like I am sure an Aston Vanquish owner isn't losing sleep over the fact I was quite happily keeping up with him the other day....cars are about more than that

Never said anything about all I wanted is BHP! The point I was making is down to how much confidence I have behind the wheel!

The VXR might have more power, etc...however, I was more confident in throwing it around that all...

 

[1340fxd]

Mine is one of the best handling cars I've ever driven and that's on the standard run flats - I'll limit that comment to dry roads as I'm not convinced the RFTs are that good in the wet.

You can stick a Z4 into bends - sharp tight curves or sweepers like no other car and if something is going to start drifting it'll be the back. The Zed inspires a lot of confidence and is great fun to drive like you stole it. However after front wheel drive, I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it.

Go for it (in the dry at first) and maybe do a track day! :driving:

 

[Andy]

Let's re-compare.. put me in your SI and you drive the VXR & we'll head to North Wales.. only way to settle this thread :driving:

I have a feeling the result won't be "poor handling"

 

[Adam D]

It's your tires. Specifically... your Runflats.

and no limited slip diff, spins up one wheel far too easy making a mild slide somewhat tricky to smoothly contain - feels quite on edge. :thumbsdown:

My last car had a proper LSD and a longer wheelbase and was very controllable should it break traction by applying a suitable amount of opposite lock smoothly.

 

[Topshelf]

I don't see any reason to doubt t20's claim if he did side by side comparo's...and he did mention his other car was tuned. If confidence is lacking, it's tough to get passed that. I raced bikes for years, and once you lose it, it's hard to get it back. I think you just need to realize that it's most likely not the car, but you...and that's not an insult. After driving those FWD cars, you really need to forget what you know and learn the proper techniques for a RWD car. I find my Z impressive, but I'm also far from it's limits at the moment, and plan on atleast 2 trackdays this year so I can get a better understanding of the car and improve my skills. One thing that I saw over and over while racing was that a skilled rider could take a bike that someone spent all weekend complaining about and lap at insane speeds without changing a thing.

The one thing I was curious about though was that you stated you had the rear end almost sideways. Do you not drive around with the DTC/DSC on? On my car there is basically no chance of the rear stepping out that much unless I turn the DTC off. Switch everything off and it's all skill now, but if confidence is low, I surely would have all my safety nets turned on.

 

[Aebous]

Dont understand why you keep bringing "feeling" into this! I had both the VXR and 3.0si on the same road at the same time, along side each other, with me and my friends testing...

The 3.0si was slower!

As for taking it to the limit, although I dont sit at 5000rpm in 2nd gear waiting for races, If i am wanting to give it the beans I dont leave max rev's...

So you're saying - you don't drive the car as fast as it can go, and when you do that other cars are faster... brilliant!

I'm not comparing any other car's, just the two I own!

The point is that in the Z4 i am not as confident in corners...not which is quicker really! I'd be quicker in a micra round a corner if i was more confident! the point i am trying to state is just the handling of the Z4 isnt that great! as for which is quicker, I'm not impressed by the Z4 but by all means its not slow!

I'm curious, How long have you been driving the VXR compared to the 3.0si?
Reason being when I first got my car, I was real timid with it (well compared to now), I wouldn't push it around corners etc. My small truck that I had for years I would drive a lot harder than it, simply because I was more confident in the truck vs the Z4 (granted the Z4 still went faster).
Anyways, I've found with the Falken 452s, the BMW M Sport supsension to just shout out confidence all over the place. This has been bolstered by 2 track events now where i've pushed the car to the limits (mine & the cars). So I'd say do what others have said, take it to a track and learn what the car will do to build up your confidence in it.

 

[Ricey]

Over the years I've driven a fair share of fast motors, and for 2 years I drove my 300bhp Astra VXR like I stole it!

But theres something stopping me from driving the Z4 fast! I've had a close call with a roundabout with the backend flicking out once, and the Z4 didnt like the snow at all, but now I've come to find myself unconfident behind the wheel of the thing, in a straight line I'm fine, but if I see a corner I drive like a grandad!!!

Anyone else have this issue?! Or am I just been a girl LOL?!

To answer this one from my point of view as a new Z4 owner.......... NO!

I love the back twitching out on roadabouts its great fun. I have gone from an Alfa Romeo GT which was good fun to drive to the erractic excitment of the challenge of the Z4. Although I will admit I have yet to try it without the traction control on.

 

[t20lau]

I'm curious, How long have you been driving the VXR compared to the 3.0si?
Reason being when I first got my car, I was real timid with it (well compared to now), I wouldn't push it around corners etc. My small truck that I had for years I would drive a lot harder than it, simply because I was more confident in the truck vs the Z4 (granted the Z4 still went faster).
Anyways, I've found with the Falken 452s, the BMW M Sport supsension to just shout out confidence all over the place. This has been bolstered by 2 track events now where i've pushed the car to the limits (mine & the cars). So I'd say do what others have said, take it to a track and learn what the car will do to build up your confidence in it.

Had the VXR just over 2years...

 

[Mr Whippy]

It's your tires. Specifically... your Runflats.

I'd say that too.

I'm driving mine much more confidently now, just not worrying about the car deciding, suddenly, on any road/surface, that it wants to be 6" to one side all of a sudden!

It actually feels much smaller and nibler than my old hot hatch now, to a certain extent! I know I have become used to it to some extent, but even passengering in my friends on the RFT Bridgestones you can just tell it feels not as planted and it holds you back!

Dave

 

[Zed_Steve]

Must admit the RFT issue is starting to get to me now. Am getting fair bit of tramlining in places, and the ride isnt as good as id like it. Like has been said, it does temper confidence in pushing too hard. Might take the plunge, even though the RFTs have not even done 2k yet.

 

[toplad]

This is hardly rocket science guys, the VXR is tuned to about 300 BHP and has more Torque than the BM, and it’s easier to drive too. I’d expect the Astra to be faster

I went out for a run on Sunday and had to drive fairly hard to keep up with a Civic Type R, the roads where narrow, twisty and chambered and suited a FWD car more,. The driver was a bit of a nutter and crossed the white lines to use more of the road, but I stayed on my side of the white line and had a bit more pace to give if required. I’m sure I’d have blown its doors off if we’d both been joining the motorway.

The Z4 handles well but it takes a bit of skill and commitment to extract the performance

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'd also say that too Toplad.

My Z4 is slower on most roads than most cars without really trying to maximise it's performance.

That is the CORE point of a sports car imho, it takes time to master and it relies on your putting in the work to get the best from it. Personally, if the Z4 was 'easy fast' like a hot hatch, I'd hate it. I actually like the fact it is a challenge to go quickly, because my last hot hatch was ultimately too easy to go far too quickly without even trying... that made it completely flawed for an enjoyable drive out because you were through the speed limit within 7 seconds and doing it all without even starting to 'enjoy' the car or having to work it hard to do that.

My commute sends me down some fun back roads, my last car would push 90mph down the road if I wanted, and be quite planted and solid doing so, the Z4 on RFT's and I'd bottle it at 50mph, now maybe 70mph is plenty on the FK452's... it'd do 90mph, but with an iron will. THAT is a GOOD thing to me, it's slowing me down and making me enjoy the driving, and making me have to work hard to go quickly, and arrive at a destination reeling with the challenge, rather than getting out calm and collected with little thrill but having blown the speed limits away and ultimately just going fast because I could.


I'd put thrill of driving before ability to cover the ground any day in this kind of car. If point to point and just going quickly while likely having less fun than a low fun sports car is a core requirement in a car get an Evo IX and piss on anything else going on UK roads!

A standard 118bhp Elise is slow on the roads, but SO intoxicating to just drive for the sake of it. To compare it to a lardy, vague, bloated Astra VXR for point to point speed would be stupid, and much the same holds true for the Z4... it's just a totally different type of car, and I'm surprised the OP actually cares how fast their car is compared to a bland hot hatch! (if these kinds of concerns even entered my mind I'd have not bought a Z in the first place, an Evo would have been on my shopping list )

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Over the years I've driven a fair share of fast motors, and for 2 years I drove my 300bhp Astra VXR like I stole it!

But theres something stopping me from driving the Z4 fast! I've had a close call with a roundabout with the backend flicking out once, and the Z4 didnt like the snow at all, but now I've come to find myself unconfident behind the wheel of the thing, in a straight line I'm fine, but if I see a corner I drive like a grandad!!!

Anyone else have this issue?! Or am I just been a girl LOL?!

Came from a FWD car to RWD and was the same as you. To be honest I still have a bit of a grandad corner every so often but not as bad as I used to be. The way I got over it was doing a road trip or two and exploring the car a bit more as it's a different world to FWD.

 

[Mr Whippy]

in a straight line I'm fine, but if I see a corner I drive like a grandad!!!

Anyone else have this issue?! Or am I just been a girl LOL?!

In a straight line you are clearly a grandad too, hence losing out to a 3.0i automatic oke:

I think you need to stop being a ladyboy, and give yourself 6 months with the car and maybe a track day or two :wink:

 

[t20lau]

in a straight line I'm fine, but if I see a corner I drive like a grandad!!!

Anyone else have this issue?! Or am I just been a girl LOL?!

In a straight line you are clearly a grandad too, hence losing out to a 3.0i automatic oke:

I think you need to stop being a ladyboy, and give yourself 6 months with the car and maybe a track day or two :wink:

See now I dont know where your slating me or just tryihng to use me to say Automatic's ar w4nk?! LOL!

 

[t20lau]

Over the years I've driven a fair share of fast motors, and for 2 years I drove my 300bhp Astra VXR like I stole it!

But theres something stopping me from driving the Z4 fast! I've had a close call with a roundabout with the backend flicking out once, and the Z4 didnt like the snow at all, but now I've come to find myself unconfident behind the wheel of the thing, in a straight line I'm fine, but if I see a corner I drive like a grandad!!!

Anyone else have this issue?! Or am I just been a girl LOL?!

Came from a FWD car to RWD and was the same as you. To be honest I still have a bit of a grandad corner every so often but not as bad as I used to be. The way I got over it was doing a road trip or two and exploring the car a bit more as it's a different world to FWD.

Sounds like I need more Road time LOL!

My mate is coming over in his Z4M tonight, let see what you M boys are all about, the guys pretty good at whipping the backend out so he's going to be my Master See Fu LOL!

 

[Breaker]

I cracked it!! Reading this thread started me thinking about driving the Z4! On paper and in the metal it has all the ingridients to be a great sports car so there must be something wrong somewhere that I wasn't really "getting it". I remembered what I said about my R1 motorbike, about it not feeling as good as the Fireblade, but in the end it was far better once I learned how to get the best out of it. I also remembered Richard Hammond's test on the Z4M around the Top Gear test track. He didn't get it at first, then he figured out how to get the best out of it.

I put this to the test this afternoon. Nice twisty, fairly wide B road I know. Hardly any traffic. Gave it some with the sport button engaged. Now when I felt as though the Z was getting twitchy, I though "Ignore it" and just give more power and grab the thing by the steering wheel and just wrestle it round the corner like dragging a dog on a lead that doesn't want to move. The Z just powered round the bend!

Result. Twitchyness went and a big grin. Love it now and glad I have finally got that feeling back I had in the MINI. I basically wasn't being rough enough with it! It knows who's boss now!!

All thanks to this thread!!

I was that pleased I went and bought the Z4 a present from the dealers of a Carbon Diffuser for the rear bumper!!

Here is the Stig's lap in the Z4M roadster on the same programme that Hammond's test was on. Can't find Hammond's test on the net? Note he chucks it into bends, not just drives it in!


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[Topshelf]

I think you're looking for this video. :wink:

Top Gear Z4M

Oh, and I'm happy you found what you needed to enjoy your car, just be careful chucking it into those public roads.

 

[Zed_Steve]

You may have hit the nail on the head there Breaker. Personally i wouldnt push it too much on the open road, already been bitten once. Would leave that for a trackday.
Also, theres more fun to be had in a Zed than a hot hatch imo oke: :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHxDYtXOVMM

http://www.nakshat.com/play.php?vid=165