What would you do?

exdos

Veteran
I've been looking to buy a specific type of petrol go-kart which don't come up for sale very often and they're invariably the most expensive type around. Very recently, one was for sale on eBay which was described as being "sold without a reserve"; it was relatively new and little used and would be worth around £10k when new. I telephoned the seller a few days before the auction was due to end, when the bidding at that time was up around £1,800. The seller told me that he was really looking for £4,600 for the kart and was thinking of closing the sale early to avoid having to sell the kart without a reserve for less. I continued to follow the auction with the intention of bidding close to the end. I jumped into the bidding at the last minute with 2 separate bids each time only to be defeated by already logged "sniped" bids. Ebay subsequently sent me an email that the kart had been sold to a bidder for £3,350 who had trumped my final bid.

Some 7 days later, eBay sent me an email informing me that the item has been relisted, and this time, the kart is being sold as a "Buy it now" for £4,600. I've smelled a rat here! I therefore looked at the bidding history on the item and it looks to me as though the seller and/or an accomplice(s) was "shill bidding" on the item, deliberately intending to raise bids from genuine bidders, such as me, and preventing the kart from being sold to a genuine bidder at less than £4,600 thus defeating being sold "without reserve".

I've telephone eBay about this and whilst I was on the phone it was confirmed that the same IP address as the seller had been used by 3 different "bidders", including the so-called "winning" bidder. eBay had accepted the relisting because the seller claims that he wasn't paid by the winning bidder! I was told that the matter will now be referred on in eBay.

Part of me can understand the seller not wanting to part with the item at the bargain price that I would have bought the kart for had he genuinely been selling the kart without reserve, but another part of me is hacked off with the seller for pulling this stunt, which is fraudulent trading in UK law. eBay is unlikely to do anything except suspend the sellers account for a short while, which does nothing to clean up eBay sharp practices.

if you were me, would you report this matter to Trading Standards where it is possible that the seller could face a heavy penalty?
 
Personally I wouldn't bother just move on,its common practice for people to get mates to bid items up
 
Personally, I'd take it as far as you can. Too often dodgy bu99ers like this get away with some con or another. If he didn't want to sell at a low price, he should've parked his ego and put a reserve on it in the in the first place, or else taken the hit and learned for next time.

Good luck with whatever you decide :thumbsup:
 
Taz said:
:? why did the seller not put the reserve at £4,600

No reserve = lower charges

For an item that expensive, I would have thought he would have coughed up for the extra charges ...

To the OP - out of principle I would not deal with him.
 
Taz said:
:? why did the seller not put the reserve at £4,600
Exactly! Does it cost more to list an item at £4,600 rather than at starting at 99p? His maximum selling fee is 10% and is capped at a maximum of £250.

alane29 said:
ust move on,its common practice for people to get mates to bid items up
Doesn't that just make it more of a jungle out there if we all just accept that when it's illegal?

stuartC said:
Personally, I'd take it as far as you can. Too often dodgy bu99ers like this get away with some con or another. If he didn't want to sell at a low price, he should've parked his ego and put a reserve on it in the in the first place, or else taken the hit and learned for next time.
The kart is a really smart piece of kit and he probably thought everyone would be envious and falling over themselves to buy it rather than thinking it is a very specialised and very limited second-hand market with very few buyers willing to spend that much on used kit?

pvr said:
To the OP - out of principle I would not deal with him.
There's no way I'd partake in his latest "buy it now" sale. It would be possible for me to blight the seller on a karting forum, so that's why I've posted this thread on here.
 
exdos said:
stuartC said:
Personally, I'd take it as far as you can. Too often dodgy bu99ers like this get away with some con or another. If he didn't want to sell at a low price, he should've parked his ego and put a reserve on it in the in the first place, or else taken the hit and learned for next time.
The kart is a really smart piece of kit and he probably thought everyone would be envious and falling over themselves to buy it rather than thinking it is a very specialised and very limited second-hand market with very few buyers willing to spend that much on used kit?

Nailed it. :thumbsup:
 
Could you not just contact the seller if you still want the item and are willing to deal with them and make your best offer that your happy to pay as long as the kart is as described, they either say yes or no
 
I would simply forget it and move on. It's hardly mugging old ladies. The only company being defrauded , as far as I can tell, is e-bay and it's a few quid, they are defrauding them of. It may be illegal but so is doing 78 mph on a bright summers morning, on the M5. :cry:
 
markplant said:
Could you not just contact the seller if you still want the item and are willing to deal with them and make your best offer that your happy to pay as long as the kart is as described, they either say yes or no

I've thought of that but think that I'd find that hard to to without coming across as a blackmailer.

stevo///m3 said:
You've got enough go karts already John!!
Stevo
My wife even encourages me to buy them! :P
 
buzyg said:
I would simply forget it and move on. It's hardly mugging old ladies. The only company being defrauded , as far as I can tell, is e-bay and it's a few quid, they are defrauding them of. It may be illegal but so is doing 78 mph on a bright summers morning, on the M5. :cry:
But if I'd been prepared to bid to £4,600 in a genuine auction then the seller, with his shill bids, would've trotted my price up and received considerably more than the true "open market value" and I would then be stuck with an item which I'd never be able to sell at that price. That's why shill bidding is considered as fraud.

It's legal to do 78mph in a go kart. 8)
 
exdos said:
markplant said:
Could you not just contact the seller if you still want the item and are willing to deal with them and make your best offer that your happy to pay as long as the kart is as described, they either say yes or no

I've thought of that but think that I'd find that hard to to without coming across as a blackmailer.

stevo///m3 said:
You've got enough go karts already John!!
Stevo
My wife even encourages me to buy them! :P
I wouldn't say it comes across as blackmail, as long as you don't threaten, they obviously want to sell the kart, just make a reasonable offer that your happy with,
 
No I wouldnt. Dont you still want the item? Offer him the £3350 it "sold for" and see what he says. He's stupid for not having placed a reserve yes but at the same time if you want it you have to play the game too...
 
DumfriesDik said:
RickRob said:
I'd let it go and get on with the rest of my life.

Same here, just walk away from it and keep your dignity.

I agree to a certain degree, though, exdos if you still want the item, place an offer that you think is fair price, he either accepts it or he doesn't then you can move on.
 
Thanks to everyone for giving their opinions on this one. :thumbsup:

I have reached the opinion that the seller made a bad misjudgement of the open market value of his kart and did what he did to avoid making a big loss if it had been sold at that price. On that basis, I've decided to sit and watch his "buy it now" sale and I'll put in a relatively low offer based on my opinion of the open market value, near to the end of the listing. If it has my name on it it'll be mine, and if not, there will be another for me sometime else.
 
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