What a Nightmare!

[Pabby1980]

Hi all,

Been a while since I've been active on here so I hope you are all well.

Long story short the 2004 3.0i won't start.

The nightmare is I can't get the RAC out to check/diagnose it as I'm not currently taxed (I sorn her for 6 moths of the year).

I can't get tax as my MOT ran out..... Yup..... you guessed it.... 4 days ago

So I have a dead car.

I've had the battery checked by Euro car farts, it's fine. It's on a trickle charge now.

I've replaced every single fuse, including the 50 and 40a ones.

The car lights up like Blackpool, but after position 2 the key does nothing. Not even a click.

Also the remote central locking no longer works and obviously the fancy coding that made the roof come up/down with the key doesn't work either.

Seems like the alarm and immobiliser system has basically failed and gone to s**t. Meaning I can't even get it to turn over.

I do remove the battery often and this may have cause the issues.

Any ideas on how to get the car to behave would be much appreciated. I've put thousands into making this old girl look as good as she can and now she's just died on me.

I really need help. I can't keep throwing money at her.

Thanks so much guys!

Paul.

 

[raymond.harper]

Electrical gremlins are the Zeds Achille's Heel causing no end of problems. Try using the second key then look at common problems such as the ignition switch, next would be the starter/solenoid. There are auto electricians who will come out and look at the car. Find one on Facebook.

 

[1536Z4]

There are auto electricians who will come out and look at the car

As said I think this would be your best option and could save you hours of trying to find the fault and spending money on bits you didn`t actually need . Where are you based there maybe someone on the forum that is electrical savvy or has a code reader that could help you diagnose issue

 

[Rockhopper]

Dead starter motor is the most likely thing. They fail without any warning. They putting 12 volts directly into the back of it. Or giving it a hit sometimes works.

 

[Pondy]

Sounds like an immobiliser or alarm issue to me as the central locking won't work.

Have you changed the batteries in the key/ remote fob? Always good to start simple.

 

[Usel]

Are the batteries in the keys flat?

Seems like the Immobiliser isn't being activated by the key button presses so you can't start the car.

P.s got distracted and took too long to respond .... so what the above poster says

 

[Rockhopper]

The immobilizer chip in the key doesn't need the key battery to work. Its a grain of rice sized thig that just sits inside the key shell and the car detects it when the key is close enough to the antenna which is wrapped around the ignition barrel. It sounds like the key has just gone flat with is why the central locking doesn't work.

 

[Usel]

The immobilizer chip in the key doesn't need the key battery to work. Its a grain of rice sized thig that just sits inside the key shell and the car detects it when the key is close enough to the antenna which is wrapped around the ignition barrel. It sounds like the key has just gone flat with is why the central locking doesn't work.

You are correct.

With a stuck starter motor you would still expect a click though wouldn't you upon trying to start?

 

[j3nks79]

You don’t always get a click with a stuck starter motor.
The other thing to check would be the earth strap. They corrode away.

 

[enuff_zed]

Don’t discount separate issues.
I’d look at the starter first.
You may then find the key issues are a different fault.
Possibly dead batteries or maybe they just need pairing to the GM5 again.

 

[1536Z4]

Maybe earths as in this recent post https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2073651#p2073651 and as [ref]j3nks79[/ref], said
The other thing to check would be the earth strap

 

[Pabby1980]

There are auto electricians who will come out and look at the car

As said I think this would be your best option and could save you hours of trying to find the fault and spending money on bits you didn`t actually need . Where are you based there maybe someone on the forum that is electrical savvy or has a code reader that could help you diagnose issue

Dead starter motor is the most likely thing. They fail without any warning. They putting 12 volts directly into the back of it. Or giving it a hit sometimes works.

Sounds like an immobiliser or alarm issue to me as the central locking won't work.

Have you changed the batteries in the key/ remote fob? Always good to start simple.

Are the batteries in the keys flat?

Seems like the Immobiliser isn't being activated by the key button presses so you can't start the car.

P.s got distracted and took too long to respond .... so what the above poster says

The immobilizer chip in the key doesn't need the key battery to work. Its a grain of rice sized thig that just sits inside the key shell and the car detects it when the key is close enough to the antenna which is wrapped around the ignition barrel. It sounds like the key has just gone flat with is why the central locking doesn't work.

The immobilizer chip in the key doesn't need the key battery to work. Its a grain of rice sized thig that just sits inside the key shell and the car detects it when the key is close enough to the antenna which is wrapped around the ignition barrel. It sounds like the key has just gone flat with is why the central locking doesn't work.

You are correct.

With a stuck starter motor you would still expect a click though wouldn't you upon trying to start?

You don’t always get a click with a stuck starter motor.
The other thing to check would be the earth strap. They corrode away.

Don’t discount separate issues.
I’d look at the starter first.
You may then find the key issues are a different fault.
Possibly dead batteries or maybe they just need pairing to the GM5 again.

Maybe earths as in this recent post https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2073651#p2073651 and as [ref]j3nks79[/ref], said
The other thing to check would be the earth strap

Electrical gremlins are the Zeds Achille's Heel causing no end of problems. Try using the second key then look at common problems such as the ignition switch, next would be the starter/solenoid. There are auto electricians who will come out and look at the car. Find one on Facebook.

First of all thanks for all of your replies @j3nks79 @enuff_zed @usel @Rockhopper @Pondrew @1536Z4 @raymond.harper

I'm going to list my experience today and ask a couple of questions if that's OK. Thanks in advance.

1. Tried the electric tooth brush method to recharge the keys (diamond type) then tried to sync them with the car by holding down the unlock key and pressing the logo button 3 times. It didn't work with either key. Both keys having the same battery issue at the same time seems very unlikely.

2. The red light on the rear view mirror no longer flashes when the car is locked.

3. The central locking still works. The remote central locking does not.

4. All other electrics seem to work (as far as I've tested).

5. The first time I turn the key I can hear an audible "click" from under the bonnet. The next time I try it, it's completely silent.


So a few questions....

A) How do I test the starter motor? I know people say put 12v to the back and hit it with a hammer etc, but what does this actually mean to a layman?? Is there an actual guide to this as I'm not a mechanic by any stretch and it took me about an hour to work out where the started motor even was! I also have big hands so if it's a finicky job I'll probably have to do it the long way.

B) How do I get the alarm/immobiliser situation sorted out and should I do this AFTER I've tested/replaced the starter motor.

C) I'm somewhat handy (I've replaced the electric steering motor myself etc) so is the above work something I can do myself, or is it a proper mechanics job?


I'll leave it at that for now and await further advice.

Again, thanks so much guys. Its a real testament to your characters that you're willing to help a stranger out. Hopefully others can benefit from this information also. Might be worth changing the thread title to something more specific once I get somewhere with these problems.

All the best.

Paul.

 

[Usel]

I am no expert, learning as I go, so I may have following wrong:

The key antenna is in the rear view mirror, this passes the key signal to the immobilser (ews) which sends a signal to the gm5 to unlock the doors.

1. Try holding the key really close to rear view mirror. Could be immobiliser (ews) or rear view mirror at fault.

2. Not flashing because the immobilser didn't get the lock button press to arm the alarm.

3. I think the gm5 is OK. When in the car with the doors shut press the lock/unlock button. Both doors should lock and unlock. I don't know if this button operates the lock on the centre console flap between the seats but try that. If it doesn't lock it then put the roof down, lock the drivers door with key in lock and then try the flap, also check the fuel flap is locking and unlocking.

4.

5. Sounds very likely the start motor has failed. The key is likely a separate issue. Supposedly it's not that hard to change yourself. Tap it with a hammer whilst someone is trying to start car. If hard to reach use a metal pole or piece of wood and then knock the end of it.

 

[Usel]

Also is the car stood up outside? Check the carpet on the drivers side, underneath the carpet as well if you can, to see if it's wet.

 

[colb]

Might be an idea to update your User details to show your location, a member who knows what they are doing may be close by and give you a hand to solve the issue. Starter motor would be on my high priority list as being duff, happened to mine a few whacks with a hammer shocked it back to life but it failed after a few test starts. Replaced with an RTX Brand from Carparts4less circa £50 for my 2.5.

 

[paddy wright]

Try a bump start to see if that works. If it does that would point to starter moment

 

[Mike6]

You say battery has been checked by ecp. Wouldn't trust them one bit. If they checked voltage it could still be battery amperes not strong enough to turn engine. How old is battery as they can throw all sorts of errors . If battery is getting on a bit try changing that first.

 

[PDJ]

Remove the spark plugs and check it turns over ok

Refit plugs and try a jump start

Try a bump/tow start

Report back

 

[Pabby1980]

Firstly thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated.

Yes the starter was faulty. I used the guides on here and did it myself for £75 but have to say, you need a long neck electric wrench or it's a bastard of a job (excuse my French).

I'll post this on the guides also. Honestly, it takes a 5 hour job down to 30 mins. Absolutely essential.

Remote central locking is now working with the usual easy fix (key in hold button etc etc), but now can't get the roof to go down with key. No big deal, Carly can do that if I find one locally.

Ugh, now just waiting for the next issue. Its like owning a boat!

MOT tomorrow so fingers crossed

Thanks again.

Paul.

 

[enuff_zed]

I used the guides on here and did it myself for £75 but have to say, you need a long neck electric wrench or it's a bastard of a job (excuse my French).

I'll post this on the guides also. Honestly, it takes a 5 hour job down to 30 mins. Absolutely essential.

Really?
Guess it depends how big your hands are and how much spanner practice you've had in the past.
I've been pulled up many times on here for saying 'it's a ten minute job' whilst forgetting I spent my life wielding tools in confined spaces.
But still................... 5 hours?