Weird Roof Functionality

[mikeyg07]

Hey everyone,

Got a question about how the roof functions / what's wrong with it?

Essentially, when I hold down the button to drop the roof it goes down fine but if I continue to hold it the windows carry on going up and down.

Also, no matter how long I hold the button, I have to hold it down again a 2nd and 3rd time (both times the windows go partially down and up) for the red light to stop flashing.

Check out the video here: https://youtu.be/G7xB5suojOU

Any thoughts? My 3 month warranty runs out in a few weeks so hoping if anything is wrong with it I can get it fixed under that.

 

[Theo86]

Hey! Newbie here and first post.

By the looks of what is happening, sounds like there is an issue with the locking mechanism. At least it looks like one. You have locks both on the windshield frame and at the rear of the car to lock the convertible top on both extended and retracted positions. If the lock (9) on the rear fails to release, the top cannot be extended. Might be just a lubrication issue or a more expensive electric issue. The captive roof may trigger an entrapment on one of two sensors (22), one on each side.



Since you have warranty on the car why not drop by for a checkup on the problem? That's what warranties are for.

Cheers!

 

[mikeyg07]

Hmm ok. Why would the red light stop flashing once I went through the cycle of pressing the button twice? Thanks for the help!

 

[Danglesberries]

Hey everyone,

Got a question about how the roof functions / what's wrong with it?

Essentially, when I hold down the button to drop the roof it goes down fine but if I continue to hold it the windows carry on going up and down.

Also, no matter how long I hold the button, I have to hold it down again a 2nd and 3rd time (both times the windows go partially down and up) for the red light to stop flashing.

Check out the video here: https://youtu.be/G7xB5suojOU

Any thoughts? My 3 month warranty runs out in a few weeks so hoping if anything is wrong with it I can get it fixed under that.

Providing it's not a poor battery issue, why are you simply not taking it back under warranty before it expires?

 

[mikeyg07]

To be honest I wasn't totally sure if it was something I was doing wrong!

 

[Theo86]

If the car senses the roof is trapped it will stop the movement and wait for you to clear the obstruction that's keeping it from moving. It's not a case of a damaged sensor that would throw a code and lock the roof in the current position. Just like when you block a power window from moving and it retracts to a safe position, it will eventually reset and expect you took the obstruction away from the path of the power window, possibly if the roof's lock is stuck and cannot release, the sensor (22) detects the roof is not moving and stops the movement before it bends or breaks something trying to move. Eventually, the CTM will assume you took care of what's blocking the path of the top but since it MAY be the lock, you never resolve the issue entirely.

Get your car to the dealership you bought it from and let them solve the issue for you since you still have warranty over the car. If it is just a question of old gunked up grease trapping the convertible top lock, they will clean it and grease it up again. If it is the lock itself or some other component, let them assume the costs under warranty of the part and labor.

By what you showed on the video, you are doing nothing wrong. It's not an operator error.

Cheers!

 

[mikeyg07]

Thanks Theo, appreciate the help!

 

[ph001]

It could be the hall sensor that’s moved slightly on the rear bulkhead. You can see what it looks like here...
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123874&p=1767970&hilit=Sensor#p1767970

 

[Theo86]

Might be. But I doubt that it is the hall effect. On the post you mentioned, the CTM would throw a fault when the top reached the down position. If it was the sensor that was not aligned, the CTM would warn as soon as the top was down because the hall effect sensor wouldn't tell the CTM ROOF DOWN COMPLETE function. If the convertible top retraction run is successful, then the Hall Effect Sensor is tripping on end travel. So the problem begins after the power windows roll down (Windows down -> rear electric lock disengage -> hydraulics engage). Best case scenario is the electric lock that is gunked up with grease and can't unlock. Worst case scenario is an issue with the hydraulic pump that does not engage the reverse hydraulic line (don't know if it is with a selector valve or solenoid. Never seen the E85 hydraulic pump assembly torn apart). Not certain on the E85's but on E89's, any Hall Effect or switch function fault locks the convertible top with a recorded fault on the CTM.

But whatever the issue might be, our friend has a valid warranty on the car. And that's a godsend for these problems.

Cheers everyone!

 

[ph001]

I suppose we should ask the OP what year his car is. The latching mechanism was deleted on the facelift cars.

 

[mikeyg07]

it's a 2007 reg

 

[enuff_zed]

it's a 2007 reg

So no latch then.

 

[Theo86]

Hello everyone!

According to BMW ETK, the latching mechanism was superseded, NOT discontinued. Prior to LCI, it was made from Feb2003 to Jul2007 with BMW part No 54317018360. From Jul2007 (LCI model) to end of production the BMW part No for the latching mechanism is 54347079583.

Cheers!

 

[ph001]

Hello everyone!

According to BMW ETK, the latching mechanism was superseded, NOT discontinued. Prior to LCI, it was made from Feb2003 to Jul2007 with BMW part No 54317018360. From Jul2007 (LCI model) to end of production the BMW part No for the latching mechanism is 54347079583.

Cheers!

I don't confess to understanding the part numbering but definitely no latching mechanism to speak of on a 2007 car. There is just a blanking panel across the whole thing. I'd be looking at the Hall sensor if I were the OP.

 

[Theo86]

Well... The Hall sensor is easily accessible. Won't hurt anyone to give it a peek. But OP would need to connect a multimeter across the leads to test successful coupling or not. Hope OP was reasonable enough to bring the car in under warranty. Would love to know more on this though. Doesn't really feel like it is simply a hall sensor because the top completes the retraction with no issues and there is no micro switch that indicates top close successful so it depends on the hall sensor for that state, but I could be wrong. Not claiming I am right or to have the solution, just questioning the symptoms stated by OP and troubleshooting. The issue appears when OP requests convertible top deployment and, as I think I understood, the top eventually deploys successfully. So intermittent fault. I'm not familiar with the E85 chassis so I find it weird for the LCI not to have the locking mechanism (don't quote me on this though, ETK might not reflect a version with a blanking plate). Been checking ETK and TIS to try and troubleshoot. I am more familiar with the E89 chassis (already was introduced with the usual broken wire loom on mine) and it's a nightmare to troubleshoot without ISTA.

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi [ref]Theo86[/ref], and welcome to the forum.
You seem to have slipped in under the radar, so how about introducing yourself in a 'Newbies' post as well?
It appears you have a lot of knowledge of these cars and a clearer introduction would maybe help others to understand what you can contribute to help us all.
Oh, and assuming you have a Z4 of your own, a picture or two wouldn't go amiss. :wink:

 

[dhobbs]

Is the problem with the roof or with the windows?

If I hold the down button my roof goes down and eventually the windows go back up.

If there is any resistance with the windows I imagine they will retract.

Could be a battery issue?

 

[Theo86]

Thank you, [ref]enuff_zed[/ref]!

Threw a bleep in the radar just now

I have a beautiful metallic black (original and unique, I know xD) E89 20i M Sport with 19" 326 alloys.


[ref]dhobbs[/ref], can't really understand what is the issue there. Does the convertible top operate normally until fully retracted and the power windows take too long to raise. Is this what you tried to say? Need a little bit more info from your side. A description of the full operation would be awesome :wink:

If the power windows detect any resistance when operating they will stop and retract a bit to clear the obstacle (hopefully not a neck). Sometimes when the window regulator is worn down, the friction generated due to wear is enough to trip the power window to stop and retract.

Welcome to BMW ownership where everything and anything can be a battery issue. Except for FRM's. That is always the battery xD

Cheers!

 

[mikeyg07]

Soooo in case people are interested in how this story finished...

Took the car to the garage and when they plugged into the computer, there were a bunch of diagnostic warnings and clearing them fixed the roof issue. They seemed to think that maybe something got changed on the car (battery or maybe roof pump) and when it did, the computer didn't get reset properly, and all the warnings caused the roof to go into 'safe' mode.