Watchdog - I need some support

Interestingly, Maniac's link mentions - "This provided a useful case precedent for motor dealers as it makes clear that vehicles may have "characteristics"................"
You mention before that other cars you have driven om loan etc had similar issues. I think you would need an independent expert to prove that yours is worse than normal.
 
I have been thinking along the lines of an independant inspection to get past BMW calling them characteristics for what are really defects.
 
If rattles and leaks are "characteristic" of a car then BMW should be including them in their "features" list in the car brouchure (as follows):

ABS X
Heated seats O
Illuminated Gear knob O
Heated rear window X
Annoying rattle from dash X
Leak from roof O

(X) standard equipment (O) Optional extra
 
GaryH said:
If rattles and leaks are "characteristic" of a car then BMW should be including them in their "features" list in the car brouchure (as follows):

ABS X
Heated seats O
Illuminated Gear knob O
Heated rear window X
Annoying rattle from dash X
Leak from roof O

(X) standard equipment (O) Optional extra
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl:
 
Its a subjective thing rattles... I've had lots and fixed lots. But what is lots to me may not even be noticed by others or may be considered irrelevant or acceptable. This type of car isn't going to be super silent, not for ever at least. There are so many moving parts, so much plastic tightly fitted. If its just what I call 'shimmy' noise (shuffling or odd quiet clicks produced as the car twists or shakes over rough ground) then its something I've learned to live with.. its a convertible, its not going to be as solid as a fixed roof car. If its loud cracking or creaking noises (by loud I mean you can hear them over a moderate volume hifi) then that is perhaps different and needs to be sorted by the dealer. Personally I don't feel rattles are enough to reject a car.. unless the whole thing rattles like a can of marbles constantly.

I recently had a really loud crack/creak noise from the rear deck area on the car. It took me many weekends of oiling and faffing to try and locate the issue. It was so bad that it made me feel like trading the car just to get rid of the noise, but then sense kicks in and you think well that's going to cost a lot, and there's no guarantee the next car I get will be noise free so best approach is to try and resolve the issue. I finally found it, and resolved it, just a few nuts on the rear deck buffer that needed nipping up. No more noise. Love for the car is restored.

Its taken me many years and a lot of money to learn my lesson with cars. Persist and resolve is usually the best approach but don't get carried away.. its a rattle.. that is all.
 
As for rattles and other noises, check out this series. Obviously the main goal is the same (to quieten the cabin from rattles/road noise) and I can confirm that if done properly, it does make a world of a difference!

Whilst a car of this price tag and target market should be quieter than obviously is, for the average person savy with car trims etc, this is a weekends job to do and is well worth the effort.

The matting is about £80 odd ( http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-mat-bulk-pack.html )

Pillow stuffing £10 (from dunlem mills)

Tube of silicone (B&Q etc, whatever the offer is)

[youtube]JmEGyfJOP4c[/youtube]

[youtube]qrk507bSnWE[/youtube]

[youtube]WemxDv4K57g[/youtube]
 
Can't see the links but sounds interesting. For me, the majority of noise has been cured with gummi-pfledge and adjustments. I've also used a little sticky backed felt in places to isolate any plastic parts that may rub. The only noises I find now are either stuff I've left in the car jumping around in the pockets etc, or ticking around the doors/windows from ice etc. I get a shimmy noise from the dash when I hit manholes (which I try and avoid) etc, that's the result of the dealer fixing a buzz in the dash a couple of years back. I now have a 'unless its constant, leave it alone' approach which is serving my stress levels very well. Yes it was an expensive car, and yes you shouldn't have to go through this, but the reality is that some of these cars make noise and its best to try and solve them. Seems to me OP that you can't really have been that much in love with this car originally if a few rattles make you want to reject it, not being funny, just my observation. Having said that, like I said earlier, I don't know how bad they are etc... Perhaps you could post a video from your phone while you drive to let us listen and comment further?
 
As others have said these cars have many moving parts so I would think its more of a surprise if they dont rattle then if they do , also as others have said the combination of rfts and british roads is going to make minor ones worse overtime ,Yes mine rattles too but I learned to live with it, I hope you get the outcome you want but I would be surprised if you can reject a car of this nature on the basis of rattles
 
Thing is though, if you want a car that rattles, you can spend a considerable lesser amount on a little Ford Ka or something, a car costing nearly £40k shouldnt have any annoying rattles. Granted you umay get the odd bit of noise now and then depending on the road surface but it sounds like this is a constant annoying rattle, which I agree, would do my head in!!!
 
GaryH said:
Thing is though, if you want a car that rattles, you can spend a considerable lesser amount on a little Ford Ka or something, a car costing nearly £40k shouldnt have any annoying rattles. Granted you umay get the odd bit of noise now and then depending on the road surface but it sounds like this is a constant annoying rattle, which I agree, would do my head in!!!
Click to expand...

In an ideal world yes... but I recall Clarkson taking a very expensive Ferrari for a run on one Top Gear episode... with a very annoying noise from the dash that he tried everything to fix, including taping down wipers! So... even silly money cars can have noises...
 
starbucks123 said:
Hi,
Hi Starbucks

If it is of any help i had what i perceived as rattling behind the passanger seat
Took it into my local main dealer to sort that and other issues out their "technitions" could find nothing wrong . .i later resolved the rattling by simply moving the seat forward a fraction so it did not rub on the headrests ! too simple for BMW to work out me thinks !
Good luck

Gaz


A few months back I started a thread on this forum regarding an odd noise in my new E89 sDrive 2.0 Auto, BMW have reached a decision and made a final offer, here are the details:

- Car collected arived from the factory with a cracked dashboard (I didn't notice as it was small)
- 4 visits to the dealership, 103 days in the garage (and still counting)
- On 3 visits the dealership attempted repairs and introduced new rattles and resolved the old ones for a few days
- The 4th visit involved a PUMA case and BMW area technician
- The car is on Finance and I'm am dealing directly with BMW Financial Services
- The final response from BMW states whilst they have found issues they deem them to be acceptable if you drive on a smooth road, as a goodwill gesture they are offering me 3 months finance payments.

The car was a dud from day 1, it rattled on the way home and was booked in a few weeks later, the dash was cracked and they replaced it and it's never stopped rattling since.

The other part that creaks is the armrest, I'm 12 stone and no popeye, but this has happened on the two courtesy cars I've had.

Other noises include behind passenger seats, behind the sat nav and the electrical dash noise heard when accelerating.

When I raised the case I wanted a replacement car due to the £38,000 price tag and the poor build quality of that particular car, but having driven a few I know I'm not alone in experiencing rattles and creaks.

I know I'm also not alone in the 'Diagnosis' and 'PUMA' case.

Is anyone willing to share their experience with Watchdog, support the case that I'm putting forward

- BMW aren't repairing issues
- THE Z4 interior isn't the build standard of a £38,000 car (it's still fun to drive)
- BMW Finance are difficult to deal with, very slow to respond and don't act fairly.
- The noise which BMW can't diagnose, and gets louder as the car gets older, isn't a characterisitic, it's a defect.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
wow... few comments to respond to...

Gaz711 - thanks, I spotted this one quite early on, but having a few tall mates the chair has found itself back in the same position. What can happen is it does create a rattle in the trim behind the seat, this was replaired a few months back

Maniac - Firstly, I think you should be in BMW head office training the technicians on how to get rid of the rattles, you obviously know the car well and have found a few weaknesses in the design. Secondly, I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to expensive purchases, I love the zed, I love the drive and driving home through London last night behind and AMG SLS, the zed looks good (not better) than the £125k merc! If the car does go back, I have no idea what I'd get instead. The reason I've fallen out of love with the car is like you said in your earlier post, a rattle had you considering trading in the car.

If I'd had a few months of enjoyment before the rattles started, I'd maybe have a different affiliation, but I had a cracked dashboard on delivery that rattled like crazy on the way home from picking it up for the first time and I've never had a single drive where the engine sound or a rattle hasn't ruined it. I like music, but I also like to drive along listening to my own thoughts, especially in preparation for a hectic day at work, the zed just puts me in a bad mood due to the BMW treatment and the money I've paid.
 
Oh btw if anyone has that creak from the arm rest/tunnel I've found and fixed that before.

It's the clip that the arm rest cover clips into. There's a small V clip that needs a little lubrication, job done.

It's part 10 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=LM72&mospid=51403&btnr=51_7317&hg=51&fg=35
 
So... this coming saturday I will be visiting my Z4 at the garage and taking it for a drive to ensure the issues remain, if the garage hasn't touched it I can't see the issue. Oddly the garage have made it clear they don't want to see me, 'the car will be in the customer car park, bring the spare key...'

On the 1st March I will view the car with a technician. I've lined up solicitors and an independant road tester in case this continuing saga doesn't come to a close (a fair one). Nothing from watchdog so far...

On a slightly different note, the Z4 I have on loan is developing some very interesting noises with Radio 2 turned up I can still clearly hear them. This car was given to me with 78 miles on the clock and is close on 3,000 now.

buzzing from the interior light area, sounds like a loose screw
creaking armrest (not tried Maniacs fix, I expect the garage to do this stuff...)
Some big cracks from the dashboard as the car warms up
Driver A post rattle/buzz
Creaking from the rear of the roof
No sign of leaks, but I haven't washed it as yet
Rubbing from the driver window

Some of these resolve as the car warms up, but for the first 10 minutes I might as well be driving a 1985 Austin Metro in a bowl of rice crispies after adding the milk.
 
Its weird that they don't want to see you and told you to take your spare key. Has the relationship broken down? I would expect them to be arse licking you, but this makes me think they;ve given up and are hoping you'll go away.

Fight!
 
starbucks123 said:
now.

buzzing from the interior light area, sounds like a loose screw
creaking armrest (not tried Maniacs fix, I expect the garage to do this stuff...)
Some big cracks from the dashboard as the car warms up
Driver A post rattle/buzz
Creaking from the rear of the roof
No sign of leaks, but I haven't washed it as yet
Rubbing from the driver window

Some of these resolve as the car warms up, but for the first 10 minutes I might as well be driving a 1985 Austin Metro in a bowl of rice crispies after adding the milk.
Click to expand...

Are you sure they've not given you MY car? ;) Interesting that I've had most of these noises over the years and mine is 3 1/2 years old now. Clearly they've not updated anything...
 
trottski101 said:
This thread as put me off thinking of purchasing any E89 :?
Click to expand...

Dont be put off buying - The majority on here love them!
Go onto any enthusiast based car forum and you will see the same complaints.

We should remember that these cars are not bespoke handbuilt items - expensive yes they certainly are but not as expensive if they had been built by hand. If you want proper creaks and rattles go and buy a well known hand built product from the Malverns :rofl:

Thats not to say rattles etc are not very irritating but they can be fixed and are not beyond the wit of man (or a decent dealership )
 
ronk said:
trottski101 said:
This thread as put me off thinking of purchasing any E89 :?
Click to expand...

Dont be put off buying - The majority on here love them!
Go onto any enthusiast based car forum and you will see the same complaints.

We should remember that these cars are not bespoke handbuilt items - expensive yes they certainly are but not as expensive if they had been built by hand. If you want proper creaks and rattles go and buy a well known hand built product from the Malverns :rofl:

Thats not to say rattles etc are not very irritating but they can be fixed and are not beyond the wit of man (or a decent dealership )
Click to expand...

Cant remember having any rattles or squeaks on my Z4M R.

But I know what you are saying. The customer service is appalling though.
 
kevinmarkwhite said:
Its weird that they don't want to see you and told you to take your spare key. Has the relationship broken down? I would expect them to be arse licking you, but this makes me think they;ve given up and are hoping you'll go away.

Fight!
Click to expand...

I've not been shy with the detail regarding conversations and attitudes towards the customer, I sent my log which up until recently I updated after every call, this had some points of view I'm sure the dealer wouldn't like, but there's nothing beyond the truth and nothing personal about them.

Maybe watchdog has been in touch... Or maybe they're reading this forum...
 
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