Was A E89 M version every made.?

[GuidoK]

Apparently not
It's not that BMW doesnt want to make big high revving engines that are pretty thirsty, they proved that with the e60 m5 :lol:
And the m3 is by far the best selling supersaloon in its class. It probably sells more than the c63amg, rs4 and all other competitors combined.
BMW probably sells as much m3's as porsche sells 911 in all it variants/in total. And for every GT3, maybe 50 m3's are sold.

So if any performance car is sold in small numbers, it's definately not the m3.

 

[original guvnor]

But what about all the rest of the Carrera cars, all the Boxsters, Panameras etc. All of these have NA engines making up a large proportion of the range. What about the SLK55 AMG with cylinder deactivation and low CO2. What about Audi RS4/5?

 

[GuidoK]

But what about all the rest of the Carrera cars, all the Boxsters, Panameras etc. All of these have NA engines making up a large proportion of the range.

As I said earlier: bmw is a normal car manufacturer, porsche is a sportscar manufacturer. EU CO2 legislation makes it possible for a sportscar manufacturer to produce cars with higher emissions.
A normal car manufacturer is allowed to make more cars.

What about the SLK55 AMG with cylinder deactivation and low CO2. What about Audi RS4/5?

Again as I said before: BMW makes way WAY more /m cars than AMG or Quattro gmbh. And the next rs4 probably will be FI again, as it has been in the past.
And the new m3/m4 will have more power, will be higher revving and will have lower c02 emissions (small difference but still lower) than the slk55amg while being a larger and heavier car. So I only see plusses on that front. And an inline six is a better balanced engine package than the v8 per definition.

It is not a question of 'but what about'.... You can be certain that BMW AG is knowlegable enough to know how the legislations are made up and how to apply to them.
M gmbh/BMW AG is not prepared to make only 10.000 m3's or so. They are in the mass volume business. Their aim is to make money, and they do that the best way they seem fit. And as BMW has been more succesful than Audi or Mercedes, or Porsche, they must be doing something right

I'm happy that they've managed to make the new m3/m4 about 80kg lighter than the previous. I think that making a lighter (more nimble) car makes for a better 'freude am fahren' car than a heavy high powered one.
And being turbocharged with air2water2air cooling (and closed deck) will probably make it an extremely potent platform for tuning.

 

[original guvnor]

I get what you are saying about EU emissions but (if you'll forgive the pun) it's a smokescreen. 15,000 or so M cars a year (or whatever the actual amount is) out of annual sales of 1.2m is bugger all. It's excuses. The fact is it's cheap to just turbo an existing engine rather than make a bespoke one and they've been watering down the M brand for a while now.

 

[GuidoK]

Building a turbocharged car is way more expensive than building a car with a large displacement engine. In the us you can get a car with a large v8 for pocket money. A turbo (and its cooling) is a very expensive part in an engine. Sizing up the cilinders is the cheapest way to get more HP, at the cost of efficiency. (and sometimes weight)

Also they havent 'turbo'd an existing engine' with the new m3. It's a bespoke engine, with -(probably) first seen in the performance production lineup- an air2water2air cooling system (which is also besides technically more advanced also more expensive than just an intercooler).

So maybe you're thinking that they're watering down the m brand, but that is not objectically based on the cost of the parts that the car is made up of.
If you think that, you're misinformed. If you don't want an FI car because you don't like turbo's, then that's bad luck for you . Buy a ferrari 458, that's a great handling car without a turbo.

 

[original guvnor]

We'll have to agree to disagree Guido.

 

[mcbeee]

Hey Guv, pick up a Carrera S, you won't regret it ... and they're NA. :driving:

 

[original guvnor]

Mcbeee I will almost certainly be buying a NA 997 next but I'm hoping GT3! The ones I like are still a bit out my price range though. Still, I love the Z4MC so keeping it another year is no hardship.

 

[Anonymous]

The 911 brochure has made a regular appearance lately, but with my Abarth experience where a dealer is far away, it is something I have to think about whether I could handle driving every time an hour to have a minor detail addressed.

Exactly the reason I got my deposit back on a McL 12C, the round trip of 255 miles to have another niggling fault corrected was to much I decided in the end, and after talking to other owners it would seem I'd be back every other month at least!!!

My local Porsche dealer is bad enough with a total trip of 120 miles (2 hours) and it's a pain getting updates installed etc, that's a reason one of my next choice of cars is the new R8 V10 because the dealer is only 4 miles from me, the other is a P13 McL which by now I'd hope they had all the niggles sorted, plus as an outside chance the i8, dealer 10 miles away.

It's ok for me being a retiree with all the time in the world but it has been a pain driving to Sheffield with the Porsche.

 

[Anonymous]

Mcbeee I will almost certainly be buying a NA 997 next but I'm hoping GT3! The ones I like are still a bit out my price range though. Still, I love the Z4MC so keeping it another year is no hardship.

Think I'd rather have a 991S, softer suspension and faster than a 997GT3 Mk2, I bought a new GT3 some years ago and sold it a few moth's later it was NOT an everyday car with suspension like a rock!

I do know where there's a very well cared for 991S which will be for sale next year opcorn:

 

[pvr]

It is an automatic though so not fitting the requirements

 

[mcbeee]

I think the GT3's are all PDK's now...

 

[pvr]

Off my list then ...

Ideal spec for me at the moment would be (assuming that the Turbo is out of scope due to gear box as well):

- Black 991 4S
- Manual
- Sports Exhaust

The rest nice to have, but it has to be manual first, 4S or 2S second.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

Off my list then ...

Ideal spec for me at the moment would be (assuming that the Turbo is out of scope due to gear box as well):

- Black 991 4S
- Manual
- Sports Exhaust

The rest nice to have, but it has to be manual first, 4S or 2S second.

From what I can gather PVR you are a real man...so bin the 4s off & stick with the exciting RWD 2s!! :driving:

 

[mcbeee]

Off my list then ...

Ideal spec for me at the moment would be (assuming that the Turbo is out of scope due to gear box as well):

- Black 991 4S
- Manual
- Sports Exhaust

The rest nice to have, but it has to be manual first, 4S or 2S second.

I tested a 2S with the Sport Shift in it, the only manual I'd get now. Got a PDK 'coz of the traffic but that short shift kit is brilliant.

 

[pvr]

I will try 2S and 4S to make sure. Just not sure I want to test drive though in case I really like it ...

 

[Anonymous]

You should be ok then because manual cars are harder to move on thus cheaper SH+ gearbox is cr*p, and as far as the clutch goes---I was at the Porsche circuit at Silverstone a few month's ago and the manual car I tried I left it in 3rd due to the very,very heavy, clutch, was just run in and the instructor told me it was normal!!.

If you cannot get on with a PDK you're not using it correctly, the 991Turbo S I drove last week was PDK only, my dealer had one in and was trying to do a deal!

Also, I do have the option of selling my car back to Porsche direct (not dealer) for a decent price but I'll advertize it first

EDIT this is the unregistered 991Turbo S that I was talking about

 

[pvr]

I have not driven one, so can not comment on the clutch or whether I like the car at all to drive. So will have to see.

I get on fine with the DCT on the Abarth, but just find it a boring drive. I miss the control, just like I did not like the 35i DCT I drove a while back as I missed a certain feeling.

 

[mcbeee]

The only thing I miss is reaching over and grabbing the stick. But I do it anyway.. and sometimes I press the clutch that isn't there but that's only during spirited sessions

As for a stiff clutch... It usually means it's time for a new one....ouch! All the ones I drove were soft and easy, the stiff one needed a clutch replacement. Cost 3 grand to fix but I got the car at a discount 8)

 

[original guvnor]

Graham, the GT3 will be purchased as a weekend toy rather than daily drive so I'm not too concerned with ride quality. It will only do 2-3k miles pa (same as the Z4MC).

I'm not too bothered about outright pace either. 0-100 in 8.7 is fast enough for me I think

I intend to do a few organised track days when I get one (nothing too serious, just Porsche Owners Club ones) so the GT3 is a good bet as it will need no modification. I'll be looking for one with the club sport pack rather than comfort pack.

Last reason for buying one is depreciation. They hardly lose value and if I can stretch to a 997.1 GT3 RS (unlikely based on their current bombproof residuals) I will.