CornishRob
Senior member
Z4MO said:
Thanks for the info.
Which kit did you use?
CornishRob said:
I asked the Indy to fit this
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-964-turner-motorsport-rear-trailing-arm-bushing-limiter-kit-rtab-shim-kit.aspx
BUT he fitted these ;
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/product-details/Rear+Trailing+Arm+Bush/1315.html
Car has changed dramatically, I was going to part ex the car on return for an M5 IF it hadn't improved.
IT HAS IMPROVED, well worth the effort. Please note that exdos has said that the parts I've had fitted can be prone to becoming squeaky later on. I can't comment on that yet but in the meantime the car feels planted in comparison to oem. I am on Eibach pro kit, Eagle F1 Assy 2's and had alignment done. I am very happy with what the Indy did and if they do get noisey / squeaky I can always get him to do a free fit of the Turner kit
Mo
Wow, those powerflex bushes are cheap, plus you don't need the limiter kit, so a cheap way of doing it. Will be interesting to hear if you get any squeaks, that would drive me mad i have to admit.
I suspect the OEM buses are 8x that for a pair!!
Mo, did your mechanic change anything else whilst in there, bolts etc?
I suspect the OEM buses are 8x that for a pair!!
Mo, did your mechanic change anything else whilst in there, bolts etc?
Beedub said:
I used a few dabs of quick drying paint which I applied to the margin of the cage and onto the bodywork to which the cage is attached. When the cage is removed the paint dabs crack in two, so when refitting, the paint dabs can be perfectly realigned. It works a treat. I agree it's one of the easier suspension mods; you just need to take care and undo all the fasteners before removing the plastic cover to get full access to the cage.
exdos said:You can sing the praises of newly-fitted polyurethane trailing arm bushes now, but in a few months time I bet they'll be making squeaking noises and will be driving you mad!
I've had Powerflex RTABs in my Z now for over 5 years (and about 70k miles), and they have never squeaked once.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Z4MO said:Sniffer, you've really started something here mate
Good.
IMO 90% of people who buy a Z ///M now or are keeping one are doing it for the thrill of what it is a BMW ///M car which has something special - even if it is assembled the wrong side of Munich
I started the thread as a heads up to the "M people"
in order to raise the profile of the base issue, which is the huge impact worn OE RTABs can have on our cars. I have been shocked by the difference before and after as I am sure many other keen drivers such as yourself have been.Any input from the many experienced and knowledgable here who have been modding and tracking their cars is exceptionally valuable to us all.
I am still considering the arguments relating to PowerFlex or OE RTAB with stabiliser plates and am mindful of everything which has been put and linked here, but the base theme here that the OE RTABs quickly deteriorate to the extent they spoil our cars and make them far less enjoyable to us all is not in dispute.
I gave my car a good thrash today on all sorts of road surfaces and loaded it up quite heavily out of some bends and the difference between before and after is simply huge.
I hope this thread helps some ///M owners who were up to now unaware they had an issue (like me a week or so ago). thumbsup:
I had my bushes replaced and my car KDS aligned for just over £150. Worth every penny and some.
Great thread. A vote from me for poly RTABs.
I fitted the Rogue Engineering street poly bushes in January this year because fitting KW V3 suspension a month earlier seemed to accentuate the sort of unsettled rear-end behaviour Sniffer experienced.
It was an easy and enjoyable DIY (although I can't argue with the price you got for the whole job and KDS Sniffer) and I made sure the bushes were very well lubricated.
The difference from the OEM bushes was immediately noticeable during the 15 metre drive from the garage, down the drive and onto the road - it really is that much of an improvement.
I'm pleased to say that several months and a few thousand miles later, I'm still impressed. They make no noise at all and I'm not aware of any increase in vibration or harshness. All I am aware of is a much more solid rear-end that can be 'leant upon' much harder without the wayward feeling the presumably worn OEMs were giving.
I know people may say a lot of this is just the difference between replacing a worn bush with a new one. But I have to say I bought my car when it had only 750 miles on the clock and I don't remember the rear-end being as good then as it is now.
I fitted the Rogue Engineering street poly bushes in January this year because fitting KW V3 suspension a month earlier seemed to accentuate the sort of unsettled rear-end behaviour Sniffer experienced.
It was an easy and enjoyable DIY (although I can't argue with the price you got for the whole job and KDS Sniffer) and I made sure the bushes were very well lubricated.
The difference from the OEM bushes was immediately noticeable during the 15 metre drive from the garage, down the drive and onto the road - it really is that much of an improvement.
I'm pleased to say that several months and a few thousand miles later, I'm still impressed. They make no noise at all and I'm not aware of any increase in vibration or harshness. All I am aware of is a much more solid rear-end that can be 'leant upon' much harder without the wayward feeling the presumably worn OEMs were giving.
I know people may say a lot of this is just the difference between replacing a worn bush with a new one. But I have to say I bought my car when it had only 750 miles on the clock and I don't remember the rear-end being as good then as it is now.
bush limiters and stock bush ALL the way, its a more expensive way initially BUT..... we are only killing later bush movement, the bush itself is fine and cheaply available.
even if your a novice, this is a very easy DIY and is actually enjoyable... don't pay a garage to do this!
lift the rear of the car.
take wheels off.
Remove cover at the back of the sill.
Remove brake line from the RTA
mark the cage so you can line it back up precisely.
remove bolts.
Gently pull down and remove centre bolt and the cage comes off in your hand.
even if your a novice, this is a very easy DIY and is actually enjoyable... don't pay a garage to do this!
lift the rear of the car.
take wheels off.
Remove cover at the back of the sill.
Remove brake line from the RTA
mark the cage so you can line it back up precisely.
remove bolts.
Gently pull down and remove centre bolt and the cage comes off in your hand.
I took these photos when I fitted the TMS RTAB limiters, and they will explain the problem and solution.
This photo shows the RTA in position in the cage with the TMS limiter kit fitted.
This photo shows the cage removed from the car with the TMS limiters. As you can see, the sides of the cage through which the RTA is bolted are domed, and since the RTA bushes are flexible, this permits lateral movement of the RTA within the cage, which is the cause of the rear-steer problem.
This photo shows the limiters installed in the cage. In the case of the Rogue Limiter kit, there's no need to drill the cage and screw the limiters in place, they simply fit onto the bolt passing through the RTA bush sleeve on both sides of the bush.
This photo shows the RTA with the OEM bush in place.
This photo shows the RTA with limiter kit installed before the cage is refitted in position.
Polyurethane RTA bushes replace the OEM rubber bushes and are wider than the OEM bushes and effectively act as a limiter kit. Both OEM and polyurethane RTA bushes have a metal sleeve which passes through them, through which the bolt passes which attaches the RTA to the cage. The bolt is tightened so that the metal sleeve inside the bush iis held in position inside the cage because the sides of the cage are slightly flexible, and as such the sleeve stays firmly in position and cannot rotate. In the case of the OEM rubber bushes, the rubber is stuck to the metal sleeve and when fitted inside the RTA, it is compressed so tight that it cannot be displaced by movement of the car, therefore, when the arm moves relative to body of the car, with normal suspension movement, the elasticity of the rubber permits the movement. In comparison, in the case of polyurethane bushes, the bushes have minimal flexibility and for them to permit movement (rotation of the arm around the bush), the bush needs to rotate on the metal sleeve which passes through them, and this can generate a lot of friction/heat, which can make the bush squeak. At the time when I fitted polyurethane RTA bushes, the suppliers also sent silicone lubricant with the kits, and most people found that this wasn't long lasting. Perhaps copper grease is the answer?
This photo shows the RTA in position in the cage with the TMS limiter kit fitted.
This photo shows the cage removed from the car with the TMS limiters. As you can see, the sides of the cage through which the RTA is bolted are domed, and since the RTA bushes are flexible, this permits lateral movement of the RTA within the cage, which is the cause of the rear-steer problem.
This photo shows the limiters installed in the cage. In the case of the Rogue Limiter kit, there's no need to drill the cage and screw the limiters in place, they simply fit onto the bolt passing through the RTA bush sleeve on both sides of the bush.
This photo shows the RTA with the OEM bush in place.
This photo shows the RTA with limiter kit installed before the cage is refitted in position.
Polyurethane RTA bushes replace the OEM rubber bushes and are wider than the OEM bushes and effectively act as a limiter kit. Both OEM and polyurethane RTA bushes have a metal sleeve which passes through them, through which the bolt passes which attaches the RTA to the cage. The bolt is tightened so that the metal sleeve inside the bush iis held in position inside the cage because the sides of the cage are slightly flexible, and as such the sleeve stays firmly in position and cannot rotate. In the case of the OEM rubber bushes, the rubber is stuck to the metal sleeve and when fitted inside the RTA, it is compressed so tight that it cannot be displaced by movement of the car, therefore, when the arm moves relative to body of the car, with normal suspension movement, the elasticity of the rubber permits the movement. In comparison, in the case of polyurethane bushes, the bushes have minimal flexibility and for them to permit movement (rotation of the arm around the bush), the bush needs to rotate on the metal sleeve which passes through them, and this can generate a lot of friction/heat, which can make the bush squeak. At the time when I fitted polyurethane RTA bushes, the suppliers also sent silicone lubricant with the kits, and most people found that this wasn't long lasting. Perhaps copper grease is the answer?
As a new owner, this thread is really, really useful and the addition of a limiter kit is now at the top of my to-do list - thanks guys
Z4MO suggested it to me first after fitting his, but this has completely demystified the whole process and I'll probably give it a go on my own.
Questions though - this drilling that has to happen I assume the cage does not have those fitting holes in it to start with ? And if I'm doing this then replace the bushes too whilst I'm there because they'll probably be shot ? And finally, why did you guys choose the TMS kit over the (simpler to install) Rogue Engineering kit - because the RE kit is poly and could squeak ?
On a totally unrelated note... Is there anywhere on this car that doesn't have an ///M logo stamped on it :lol:
Z4MO suggested it to me first after fitting his, but this has completely demystified the whole process and I'll probably give it a go on my own.
Questions though - this drilling that has to happen I assume the cage does not have those fitting holes in it to start with ? And if I'm doing this then replace the bushes too whilst I'm there because they'll probably be shot ? And finally, why did you guys choose the TMS kit over the (simpler to install) Rogue Engineering kit - because the RE kit is poly and could squeak ?
On a totally unrelated note... Is there anywhere on this car that doesn't have an ///M logo stamped on it :lol: