VRSF downpipes worth it or not...?

[john-e89]

It's a tricky DIY but worth doing if you're handy with spanners. If you're near Darren Wood or an N54 specialist like PMP then they would be capable, I just wouldn't trust any old garage as it takes a bit of patience to get things lined up correctly.

I'd certainly say the mods are worthwhile. The intercooler should be the priority as the stock unit is pretty flimsy, it's OK for stock boost levels (8PSI) but if you want to push the car towards 400bhp then you'll be pushing about 17 or 18PSI and the stock intercooler will cause the intake temps to rise to the point where the engine reduces power, you'll also get more knock as the temps rise.

If you're planning on staying with the stock turbos you don't need to consider anything larger than 5". BMS do a nice one with stock connectors that will just slide right in with no bumper trimming required. I didn't notice any change in how the car drove when moving to a 5" intercooler, certainly no lag or loss of low end torque. That might happen to some extent with a large 7.5" intercooler but those are intended for cars with 700bhp+.

I found the downpipes made a huge difference to how fast the turbos spooled. The N54 with stock turbos doesn't suffer from turbo lag normally but the catless downpipes make it even faster. The better exhaust note and extra power are just a bonus.

There isn't really anywhere in the UK to get good quality parts anymore. That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs. If you want quality parts then you're going to have to buy them from the USA. I just purchased a new intercooler and downpipes for my other car from N54tuning.com, if you send the owner an email he should be able to sort out a deal on shipping to the UK, I've bought 2 sets of downpipes and intercooler from him now and he's been great both times.

Brill thanks very much for that...!

Will def be fitting them myself, if I can’t manage these it really is time to give up on life...! :lol:

 

[john-e89]

I put VRSF downpipes pipes on my 35i with a stage 1 celtic map. I returned it to Celtic to have the map retweaked for the downpipes, net result another 27 BHP on the rolling road. Dont be tempted to DIY fit them they are so close to the body/subframe you will spend days loosening/moving/tightening till you get them right. Have you goy an uprated intercooler yet, if not you need to or your turbos are going to cook..

Picture below to demonstrate how tight they are, you can see the VRSF logo welded on each pipe.

Intercooler will come with the downpipes. 27bhp is a healthy increase, thanks for the pics etc.

Not sure why you doubt I can fit them myself, I have a full height ramp and would be happy to rebuild the engine on my M if the bearings spun etc,

I dont 'doubt' anyone can fit them at all bud. If you have a ramp then hell yeah diy it but I would not recommend it as a 'do on your back' job to anyone. Its not hard, its just fiddly and can easily turn in to a lot of labour if you dont get them aligned first/second/third (etc etc) time.... Not to mention lying under a not to mention lying under a ton + of balanced car while you pull and push!!!!!

I get that mate....my days of laying on my back under a car on axle stands in the cold and wet are long gone....! :lol:

Yep if I didn’t have a ramp I’d farm it out 100%. Good pic you sent, appreciate that.

 

[sunnydays]

Make sure to label your O2 sensors when removing. They are very easy to mix up when putting them back on.

That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs.

Thats a real shame.

 

[john-e89]

Make sure to label your O2 sensors when removing. They are very easy to mix up when putting them back on.

That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs.

Thats a real shame.

Cheers Sunny

 

[john-e89]

It's a tricky DIY but worth doing if you're handy with spanners. If you're near Darren Wood or an N54 specialist like PMP then they would be capable, I just wouldn't trust any old garage as it takes a bit of patience to get things lined up correctly.

I'd certainly say the mods are worthwhile. The intercooler should be the priority as the stock unit is pretty flimsy, it's OK for stock boost levels (8PSI) but if you want to push the car towards 400bhp then you'll be pushing about 17 or 18PSI and the stock intercooler will cause the intake temps to rise to the point where the engine reduces power, you'll also get more knock as the temps rise.

If you're planning on staying with the stock turbos you don't need to consider anything larger than 5". BMS do a nice one with stock connectors that will just slide right in with no bumper trimming required. I didn't notice any change in how the car drove when moving to a 5" intercooler, certainly no lag or loss of low end torque. That might happen to some extent with a large 7.5" intercooler but those are intended for cars with 700bhp+.

I found the downpipes made a huge difference to how fast the turbos spooled. The N54 with stock turbos doesn't suffer from turbo lag normally but the catless downpipes make it even faster. The better exhaust note and extra power are just a bonus.

There isn't really anywhere in the UK to get good quality parts anymore. That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs. If you want quality parts then you're going to have to buy them from the USA. I just purchased a new intercooler and downpipes for my other car from N54tuning.com, if you send the owner an email he should be able to sort out a deal on shipping to the UK, I've bought 2 sets of downpipes and intercooler from him now and he's been great both times.

Sooooooo finally had a look at N54 Tuning RE...many thanks for the shout...

Just a quickie, have you seen these AR downpipes they do...? They go all the way @3” rather than dropping to 2.5” at the turbo. I can’t imagine they’re really worth $925 over the now $400 of the VRSF...maybe if you’re hell bent on squeezing every ounce out of the car.

Just curious if you have any thoughts...

 

[R.E92]

It's a tricky DIY but worth doing if you're handy with spanners. If you're near Darren Wood or an N54 specialist like PMP then they would be capable, I just wouldn't trust any old garage as it takes a bit of patience to get things lined up correctly.

I'd certainly say the mods are worthwhile. The intercooler should be the priority as the stock unit is pretty flimsy, it's OK for stock boost levels (8PSI) but if you want to push the car towards 400bhp then you'll be pushing about 17 or 18PSI and the stock intercooler will cause the intake temps to rise to the point where the engine reduces power, you'll also get more knock as the temps rise.

If you're planning on staying with the stock turbos you don't need to consider anything larger than 5". BMS do a nice one with stock connectors that will just slide right in with no bumper trimming required. I didn't notice any change in how the car drove when moving to a 5" intercooler, certainly no lag or loss of low end torque. That might happen to some extent with a large 7.5" intercooler but those are intended for cars with 700bhp+.

I found the downpipes made a huge difference to how fast the turbos spooled. The N54 with stock turbos doesn't suffer from turbo lag normally but the catless downpipes make it even faster. The better exhaust note and extra power are just a bonus.

There isn't really anywhere in the UK to get good quality parts anymore. That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs. If you want quality parts then you're going to have to buy them from the USA. I just purchased a new intercooler and downpipes for my other car from N54tuning.com, if you send the owner an email he should be able to sort out a deal on shipping to the UK, I've bought 2 sets of downpipes and intercooler from him now and he's been great both times.

Sooooooo finally had a look at N54 Tuning RE...many thanks for the shout...

Just a quickie, have you seen these AR downpipes they do...? They go all the way @3” rather than dropping to 2.5” at the turbo. I can’t imagine they’re really worth $925 over the now $400 of the VRSF...maybe if you’re hell bent on squeezing every ounce out of the car.

Just curious if you have any thoughts...

They look similar to me. I don't remember the VRSF pipes being any thinner than the flanged part at any point.

AR downpipes do have a good reputation but I don't think there's a performance gain to be had. The main restriction for the N54 is the turbo outlets, on our RHD cars the pipes are crushed right down for clearance around the steering column.

 

[john-e89]

It's a tricky DIY but worth doing if you're handy with spanners. If you're near Darren Wood or an N54 specialist like PMP then they would be capable, I just wouldn't trust any old garage as it takes a bit of patience to get things lined up correctly.

I'd certainly say the mods are worthwhile. The intercooler should be the priority as the stock unit is pretty flimsy, it's OK for stock boost levels (8PSI) but if you want to push the car towards 400bhp then you'll be pushing about 17 or 18PSI and the stock intercooler will cause the intake temps to rise to the point where the engine reduces power, you'll also get more knock as the temps rise.

If you're planning on staying with the stock turbos you don't need to consider anything larger than 5". BMS do a nice one with stock connectors that will just slide right in with no bumper trimming required. I didn't notice any change in how the car drove when moving to a 5" intercooler, certainly no lag or loss of low end torque. That might happen to some extent with a large 7.5" intercooler but those are intended for cars with 700bhp+.

I found the downpipes made a huge difference to how fast the turbos spooled. The N54 with stock turbos doesn't suffer from turbo lag normally but the catless downpipes make it even faster. The better exhaust note and extra power are just a bonus.

There isn't really anywhere in the UK to get good quality parts anymore. That ML performance place seems to have shifted to selling rebranded chinese knockoffs. If you want quality parts then you're going to have to buy them from the USA. I just purchased a new intercooler and downpipes for my other car from N54tuning.com, if you send the owner an email he should be able to sort out a deal on shipping to the UK, I've bought 2 sets of downpipes and intercooler from him now and he's been great both times.

Sooooooo finally had a look at N54 Tuning RE...many thanks for the shout...

Just a quickie, have you seen these AR downpipes they do...? They go all the way @3” rather than dropping to 2.5” at the turbo. I can’t imagine they’re really worth $925 over the now $400 of the VRSF...maybe if you’re hell bent on squeezing every ounce out of the car.

Just curious if you have any thoughts...

They look similar to me. I don't remember the VRSF pipes being any thinner than the flanged part at any point.

AR downpipes do have a good reputation but I don't think there's a performance gain to be had. The main restriction for the N54 is the turbo outlets, on our RHD cars the pipes are crushed right down for clearance around the steering column.

5-10 bhp gain apparently, not worth the extra outlay imo.

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

Hi john e89
Sorry to jump on your thread
I did reply to your question about the eisenmann
Hope you got it . Also PMed you but that’s probably still floating around the galaxy due to my incompetence at sending stuff Did you go twin or quad on the eisenmann John ?

 

[john-e89]

Hi john e89
Sorry to jump on your thread
I did reply to your question about the eisenmann
Hope you got it . Also PMed you but that’s probably still floating around the galaxy due to my incompetence at sending stuff Did you go twin or quad on the eisenmann John ?

Hey Dave,

I didn’t get a PM sire...no issues, electronic wizardry doesn’t always go to plan...! :lol:

The ‘Zorst’ as they say in chav land.... :roll: arrived xmas eve after a 14 week wait, pretty understandable under the circumstances. I went with a single tip each side, the quality is superb, I’ll be fitting it hopefully this week.

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

Quality, same as I got ,
I did say in the lost PM , I wish I had gone for quads though. I’m in a discussion with m style and eisenmann ATM to see if thy will sell me the relevant bits to change it . You will love it John , I had a similar wait even without COVID , the eisenmann makes the radio void though, I’ve never had it on as I love the exhaust note so much. Give us some feedback when it’s had a test run

 

[john-e89]

Quality, same as I got ,
I did say in the lost PM , I wish I had gone for quads though. I’m in a discussion with m style and eisenmann ATM to see if thy will sell me the relevant bits to change it . You will love it John , I had a similar wait even without COVID , the eisenmann makes the radio void though, I’ve never had it on as I love the exhaust note so much. Give us some feedback when it’s had a test run

Hey Dave.

Sooooooo fitted the Eisenmann a couple of weeks ago, in a nutshell tbh I thought there would be a little more sound with it. It’s good, nice deep burble, but lacking a bit in DB’s. I’m beginning to wonder if they sent me the street system instead of the race. The closet comparison I can make is it sounds like the 35is system with the golf tee mod, maybe a little more. I don’t want mental but it’s a touch quiet, I didnt really know what to expect as YouTube vids can be very hit or miss. Having said that I’m waiting for N54 tuning to get me a price for importing VRSF downpipes and intercooler so I think the downpipes will probably make it pretty much spot on.

Is your car a 35i or 35is Dave...?

 

[Jollyjoiner]

Quality, same as I got ,
I did say in the lost PM , I wish I had gone for quads though. I’m in a discussion with m style and eisenmann ATM to see if thy will sell me the relevant bits to change it . You will love it John , I had a similar wait even without COVID , the eisenmann makes the radio void though, I’ve never had it on as I love the exhaust note so much. Give us some feedback when it’s had a test run

Hey Dave.

Sooooooo fitted the Eisenmann a couple of weeks ago, in a nutshell tbh I thought there would be a little more sound with it. It’s good, nice deep burble, but lacking a bit in DB’s. I’m beginning to wonder if they sent me the street system instead of the race. The closet comparison I can make is it sounds like the 35is system with the golf tee mod, maybe a little more. I don’t want mental but it’s a touch quiet, I didnt really know what to expect as YouTube vids can be very hit or miss. Having said that I’m waiting for N54 tuning to get me a price for importing VRSF downpipes and intercooler so I think the downpipes will probably make it pretty much spot on.

Is your car a 35i or 35is Dave...?

Did this come with middle cats deleted John ? I know mine is the Miltek but it's got the middle cats deleted, I'd hate to think what mine would sound like with downpipes too :-o

 

[R.E92]

If your new exhaust has the mid cats removed or replaced with higher flow versions then you won't be able to pass an MOT if you also remove the primary cats.

 

[john-e89]

If your new exhaust has the mid cats removed or replaced with higher flow versions then you won't be able to pass an MOT if you also remove the primary cats.

Mid cats are there R.E92 so should be fine.

Spoke to Mike at N54 tuning last night, he’s rather short on words no...? :lol: However import is fair enough and he’s doing a low value statement to keep vat low as possible. Ordering a 5” stepped cooler and pipes.

 

[john-e89]

Quality, same as I got ,
I did say in the lost PM , I wish I had gone for quads though. I’m in a discussion with m style and eisenmann ATM to see if thy will sell me the relevant bits to change it . You will love it John , I had a similar wait even without COVID , the eisenmann makes the radio void though, I’ve never had it on as I love the exhaust note so much. Give us some feedback when it’s had a test run

Hey Dave.

Sooooooo fitted the Eisenmann a couple of weeks ago, in a nutshell tbh I thought there would be a little more sound with it. It’s good, nice deep burble, but lacking a bit in DB’s. I’m beginning to wonder if they sent me the street system instead of the race. The closet comparison I can make is it sounds like the 35is system with the golf tee mod, maybe a little more. I don’t want mental but it’s a touch quiet, I didnt really know what to expect as YouTube vids can be very hit or miss. Having said that I’m waiting for N54 tuning to get me a price for importing VRSF downpipes and intercooler so I think the downpipes will probably make it pretty much spot on.

Is your car a 35i or 35is Dave...?

Did this come with middle cats deleted John ? I know mine is the Miltek but it's got the middle cats deleted, I'd hate to think what mine would sound like with downpipes too :-o

As above mid cats are there Nige, perhaps why your Milltek sounds more raucous than mine.

 

[R.E92]

If your new exhaust has the mid cats removed or replaced with higher flow versions then you won't be able to pass an MOT if you also remove the primary cats.

Mid cats are there R.E92 so should be fine.

Spoke to Mike at N54 tuning last night, he’s rather short on words no...? :lol: However import is fair enough and he’s doing a low value statement to keep vat low as possible. Ordering a 5” stepped cooler and pipes.

Yes, man of few words.

If you're after a serious intercooler then I would go for the CSF one. I tried the usual 5" stepped eBay version and was disappointed then tried the 5" BMS intercooler which was a slight upgrade but still not great then decided to just do it properly and ordered the CSF one. My intake temps are rock solid now.

The bonus of the Z4 is that it fits perfectly with no trimming since we have more room up front than all other N54 cars. It also uses stock connectors so no messing around with silicon tube. I tune another Z4 with a 7.5" VRSF fitted and I'd say the performance is equal between them after comparing log data which is crazy considering how much larger the 7.5" is.

I don't think Mike@n54 tuning stocks them but I went through XPH in Las Vegas, funnily enough he's also called Mike.

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

Hi John
Just seen this
Mmm , not sure what to say about that
Can’t believe they sent the wrong one, but maybe, davros had stock on hes e86 , I put a race on mine and the difference was quite a lot (i thought) mine on the e89 sounds louder than the golf tee mod , just wish I had gone quad tips

 

[john-e89]

If your new exhaust has the mid cats removed or replaced with higher flow versions then you won't be able to pass an MOT if you also remove the primary cats.

Mid cats are there R.E92 so should be fine.

Spoke to Mike at N54 tuning last night, he’s rather short on words no...? :lol: However import is fair enough and he’s doing a low value statement to keep vat low as possible. Ordering a 5” stepped cooler and pipes.

Yes, man of few words.

If you're after a serious intercooler then I would go for the CSF one. I tried the usual 5" stepped eBay version and was disappointed then tried the 5" BMS intercooler which was a slight upgrade but still not great then decided to just do it properly and ordered the CSF one. My intake temps are rock solid now.

The bonus of the Z4 is that it fits perfectly with no trimming since we have more room up front than all other N54 cars. It also uses stock connectors so no messing around with silicon tube. I tune another Z4 with a 7.5" VRSF fitted and I'd say the performance is equal between them after comparing log data which is crazy considering how much larger the 7.5" is.

I don't think Mike@n54 tuning stocks them but I went through XPH in Las Vegas, funnily enough he's also called Mike.

Mike stocks the VRSF 5” stepped coolers R.E, I have no idea what the fit is like but the quality should be fine I’m assuming given the downpipes are solid and well made. Import costs wise it would be better to get it all in a single box from Mike. I don’t know if you have any experience with the VRSF coolers...?

 

[john-e89]

Hi John
Just seen this
Mmm , not sure what to say about that
Can’t believe they sent the wrong one, but maybe, davros had stock on hes e86 , I put a race on mine and the difference was quite a lot (i thought) mine on the e89 sounds louder than the golf tee mod , just wish I had gone quad tips

I’d say it’s a little more than a 35is with the mod Dave, not a huge amount by any means though. I’ll have a look at the part number on the silencers.

 

[sunnydays]

Surprised you changed the stock 35is exhaust, I thought it sounded fantastic especially with VRSF Downpipes. The VRSF intercoolers are good, you can find various logs online of the various intercoolers John, 3 variants to choose from VRSF iirc. I see R.E92 has put you in touch with some fellas stateside, I have just dropped Marshall a text (owner of ML Performance) to see if he can get the VRSF parts in on request if you fancy ordering in via GB rather than from abroad, not sure what the price difference might be, but can put you in touch if you want to chat to him?