Vanos Seal Replacement-WARNING-don’t do what I did****

[GuidoK]

Easy, rent a car lift at a diy garage (I'm guessing you don't have one), and a transmission jack, and lower the block. It is the most elegant, least destructive way to do it.
If you're smart you do that with some other upgrades (engine mounts, exhaust work polybush the antirollbars or such), or a small service (oil, brakes etc)
I can imagine that if you dont have (or will use) a lift, removing the engine mounts is something you'd rather not do, but if you get your car on some axle stands, and a helper uses a jack to carefully lift the engine, it's basically the same procedure but a bit less comfortable. Maybe if you can remove the studs with a stud extractor it's easier, although you have to get them in too. I don't know what I would have done, having no lift and no experience under the car regarding mounts etc. It maybe also depends on how you want things to be. I always strive for a 100% score, everything has to be perfect in every way I can, especially when it comes to the mechanics. For another car I might cut more corners, or may spend more time polishing instead of tinkering :wink: .

Whatever you do, don't forget to order a new rockercover gasket if you havent installed one recently. And dont forget sealant for the crossings between the rockercover gasket and the various crossings in the block (block-vanos etc). Some use RTV sealant (a silicone based sealant, mostly blue), but bmw recommends Treebond, that is a rubber/latex type sealant that feels quite differently. More like rubber cement. I have no info if the (widely available) RTV stuff works on this spot, I used the treebond (from ebay I think, it's hard to come by).
http://www.i6automotive.co.uk/vanos-seal-kits/ can also provide seals, and an anti rattle kit (which is in regard to the seals much harder to install, but again no problems here). They don't have the plastic vise jaws I believe. They are a must in this procedure. You can get them on ebay under different names.

 

[domsz4]

i had a look at their site and it seems a a relatively straight forward job in term of what is needed. granted the problems said here are an issue. i cant say i've got any of the symptoms like stuttering etc but as a preventative measure £30 on seals and a few hrs tooling is nothing. like you said a small gradual drop in performance wont be noted. might be worth doing.

whats the anti rattle kit thing?

 

[Midhurstman]

How tight were the studs in the block? As I will no doubt have to do the same, I would appreciate any further info such as ease of removal and tips on access with the mole grips.

Studs undo anti-clock right??

The studs only go about 6-8mm into the block, were quite tight at first and the moles have to be set to grip very tight to get the studs turning rather than the moles slipping. After a full turn or two the studs ease up. The biggest problem is that you only get about 25mm of turn with the mole grips before they come into contact with one of the other studs or part of the vanos casing, which means lots of patience and time before the stud finally comes out. The best tip I could give is to use the smallest molegrips possible as mine were quite large and therefore took up all the space. I tried normal pliers but could not exert enough pressure to turn the stud. They are standard right hand thread and undo anticlockwise, as you correctly state.

Edit
Important to remind anyone attempting this job that it appears that some people have found that there is just enough clearance to the bulkhead to remove the vanos unit without having to remove any studs. Best to try first and only remove studs if essential.

 

[domsz4]

If its a stud can't you do the old 2 bolt trick to get them out?

 

[GuidoK]

Important to remind anyone attempting this job that it appears that some people have found that there is just enough clearance to the bulkhead to remove the vanos unit without having to remove any studs. Best to try first and only remove studs if essential.

I highly doubt that. I certainly havent seen that

If its a stud can't you do the old 2 bolt trick to get them out?

You can try, but when the vanos is on the studs, and there is 1 nut on the stud, there are about 3 threads left for another nut.
There is risk of damaging. But if that works (maybe use 2 slightly flattened/grinded off m6 nuts and a flattened/grinded cheap spanner) that would be the easiest way.
But I didn't want to risk that (I had no spare studs). If you damage the studs there, you have to put in new studs.
so worth the attempt but have new studs on hand.

Putting in new studs (with the vanos in place), also requires that you start to fiddle with the vise grips or so, because you have to get the new studs in too with some force. You don't want them to come loose. Maybe you can do that with the 2 nut method too, but you have to put the nuts on even further out because after tightening the studs you have to tighten the vanos.

Which method you use, it's always non straight foreward.

 

[Midhurstman]

Important to remind anyone attempting this job that it appears that some people have found that there is just enough clearance to the bulkhead to remove the vanos unit without having to remove any studs. Best to try first and only remove studs if essential.

I highly doubt that. I certainly havent seen that

If its a stud can't you do the old 2 bolt trick to get them out?

You can try, but when the vanos is on the studs, and there is 1 nut on the stud, there are about 3 threads left for another nut.
There is risk of damaging. But if that works (maybe use 2 slightly flattened/grinded off m6 nuts and a flattened/grinded cheap spanner) that would be the easiest way.
But I didn't want to risk that (I had no spare studs). If you damage the studs there, you have to put in new studs.
so worth the attempt but have new studs on hand.

Putting in new studs (with the vanos in place), also requires that you start to fiddle with the vise grips or so, because you have to get the new studs in too with some force. You don't want them to come loose. Maybe you can do that with the 2 nut method too, but you have to put the nuts on even further out because after tightening the studs you have to tighten the vanos.

Which method you use, it's always non straight foreward.

If you check shipkillers old accounts he clearly states he has carried out this job for four or five other people and on a couple he was able to slip the vanos off with all studs still in place.

No need to use the molegrips for this. Putting the studs back in was easy because I have a mig welder so tacked off the back of a 6mm wing nut leaving only about 2 turns of thread for the wing nut to screw on the stud until it tightened against the weld. After fitting the vanos back on to the shorter studs (still in place) the long studs were then screwed in by hand. Once the stud was fully in (take care because they can be screwed in too far), a short sharp blow to the wing nut released the tightness on the stud and the wing nut removed. In the absence of a welding m/c I guess you could screw a short length of 6mm stud 1 or 2 turns into the back of the wing nut to act as a stop instead of the weld.

 

[GuidoK]

If you check shipkillers old accounts he clearly states he has carried out this job for four or five other people and on a couple he was able to slip the vanos off with all studs still in place.

Yes by yanking on the subframe so hard that it bends so the vanos clears. I've read that stuff....I've been there a year ago....
That kind of medievel mechanics is something that I'd never do to my beloved car!
As I've written: I also removed all the upper (subframe)bolts to try that, but I soon didn't understand how on earth he could pull so hard on the subframe to disform it an inch or so.
I was afraid I'd pull it of the carlift!
Have you tried that?

No need to use the molegrips for this. Putting the studs back in was easy because I have a mig welder so tacked off the back of a 6mm wing nut leaving only about 2 turns of thread for the wing nut to screw on the stud until it tightened against the weld. After fitting the vanos back on to the shorter studs (still in place) the long studs were then screwed in by hand. Once the stud was fully in (take care because they can be screwed in too far), a short sharp blow to the wing nut released the tightness on the stud and the wing nut removed. In the absence of a welding m/c I guess you could screw a short length of 6mm stud 1 or 2 turns into the back of the wing nut to act as a stop instead of the weld.

I still think with all this stuff taking out the mounts is still the easiest, quickest and safest way :lol:
It's certainly the way that leaves the least amount of damage (no damage).

 

[Stratts]

To be honest Guido, the thought of lifting up my engine with a jack or moving it in any way is far more difficult/scary that undoing a few bolts.

I understand why it is easier in theory, but in practice it's something I would find intimidating.

 

[GuidoK]

It is maybe a matter of experience.
But if it is on a lift, and you have a transmission jack (if you have a lift, you'll have that too :roll: ) it's a very easy job.
Just remove the plastic undertray, maybe remove the aluminium brace (6 bolts or so), and the two bolts on the mounts underneath and the two bolts from the top.
You just lift the engine up maybe an inch (just to get the rubber mounts out), you don't lift the engine out of the car :lol:
I don't know how the situation is in the UK, but here there are diy garages where you can rent a lift.

I can understand to try and remove the studs (despite this topictitle :lol: ) when you dont have a lift and don't want to rent one (although that also has some niggles as you can read, even welding nuts to the studs), but bending the subframe that far (with a lot of force) is very crude mechanics. I tried to give it a go but soon realised that that would require excessive force (I don't think I'm strong enough... ) so that was certainly not the way for me.
Removing the enginemounts with jackstands and a trolleyjack isn't something I've done on the z4, but I think it's basically the same as with the carlift.
I think when a car is on jackstands, you don't remove enginemounts if you don't know for sure that that will clear the vanos enough, but now you know that (remember, when I did that, there was no howto or anything that that was a possible way, so I did that on estimate, not knowing if that would work)

I basically had half my car apart (or maybe more...) with all my mods and in regards to that I dont rate the removal of the vanos as a difficult job at all.
Things like installing headers or installing cams is way more difficult (cams: mechanical insight/knowledge required, headers: much worse access).

When you work on cars, removing things like engine mounts or other stuff is often required just to get access to something. It is a normal procedure when you're tinkering with cars. That's what it's about :wink:

 

[Stratts]

I'll certainly have a look and see if the access is easy when the car is on my ramps. I CAN do it, as I've been looking at changing the water pump so I know I'll need to lift the engine for that job, but having no picture or proper how to guide anywhere, I'd be doing it blind and I don't like that.

Sounds like a job for when I have a good 2 days spare so I can be sure I can get it all done.

 

[GuidoK]

Doesn't TIS say how the waterpump should be removed?

edit: Yes I see in TIS that you have to raise the engine 3cm.
They do that with and engine bridge. I have one too (a generic one, not the bmw $pecialty tool) and have tried that in the past (I had to raise the engine for installing my supercharger), but a generic engine bridge does not fit that well on the sides of the wheel arches.
It's pretty thin metal there. At least that's what I thought when I tried to raise it, so I got scared it would damage/dent the inner line of the fender.
I just put a small block of wood between the oilpan and the subframe after jacking up the engine with a jack underneath (put some wood between the jack and the oilpan). That works too

 

[srhutch]

Is this a problem which affects the 3.0si engine as well as the 3.0i? I'd not read a huge amount about it before, but am interested having absorbed your thread!

Good effort, and good write up too

As far as I am aware the vanos seal issue only affects M52, M52TU, and M54 engines. In the Z series cars, that's Z3 2.5i and 3.0i, and Z4 2.5i and Z4 3.0i (2003-2005 only). You can find a lot of information on the net about the vanos problem in these engines by typing 'BMW Vanos seal replacement' or similar into a search engine. Much of this will be from this very forum and some on other BMW forums.

z4 2.2 also has M54 engine.

 

[Midhurstman]

It is maybe a matter of experience.
But if it is on a lift, and you have a transmission jack (if you have a lift, you'll have that too :roll: ) it's a very easy job.
Just remove the plastic undertray, maybe remove the aluminium brace (6 bolts or so), and the two bolts on the mounts underneath and the two bolts from the top.
You just lift the engine up maybe an inch (just to get the rubber mounts out), you don't lift the engine out of the car :lol:
I don't know how the situation is in the UK, but here there are diy garages where you can rent a lift.

I can understand to try and remove the studs (despite this topictitle :lol: ) when you dont have a lift and don't want to rent one (although that also has some niggles as you can read, even welding nuts to the studs), but bending the subframe that far (with a lot of force) is very crude mechanics. I tried to give it a go but soon realised that that would require excessive force (I don't think I'm strong enough... ) so that was certainly not the way for me.
Removing the enginemounts with jackstands and a trolleyjack isn't something I've done on the z4, but I think it's basically the same as with the carlift.
I think when a car is on jackstands, you don't remove enginemounts if you don't know for sure that that will clear the vanos enough, but now you know that (remember, when I did that, there was no howto or anything that that was a possible way, so I did that on estimate, not knowing if that would work)

I basically had half my car apart (or maybe more...) with all my mods and in regards to that I dont rate the removal of the vanos as a difficult job at all.
Things like installing headers or installing cams is way more difficult (cams: mechanical insight/knowledge required, headers: much worse access).

When you work on cars, removing things like engine mounts or other stuff is often required just to get access to something. It is a normal procedure when you're tinkering with cars. That's what it's about :wink:

I don't understand why this seems to have become a competition of "my way is best". I thought this was a thread about vanos removal, it now seems to have progressed to 'fifty ways to take your whole car apart'. Getting back to topic, there is often more than one way to tackle a job and what works for one person is not the choice of another. You must have read something that I missed in shipkillers posts, do you know for sure that subframe bending was carried out? Speaking for myself, I would never contemplate this as I would never attempt to force anything in this way. I agree with a previous comment in that, for me, the removal of 2 studs was the option I preferred ( BTW you have not read my explanation correctly, I blanked off the end of a 6mm wing nut by welding, I did not weld it to a stud! How would I have got it off when the stud was home? I explained that a sharp tap on one of the wings released the wing nut, without unscrewing the stud in any way, difficult to do if it is welded to it!) I agree that vanos removal is not that difficult, it is just not as blindingly simple as some sellers of the seal kits tend to make out.

 

[GuidoK]

I don't understand why this seems to have become a competition of "my way is best".

Lets be clear: those are your words.

I blanked off the end of a 6mm wing nut by welding, I did not weld it to a stud! How would I have got it off when the stud was home?

I misunderstood that. I thought you made a little tackweld and when it was in you tapped the nut that broke the weld or something like that.

But sorry that we went off topic in maybe removing the waterpomp in the process for another user that is planning to do the vanos.
The title of your thread is somewhat misleading as it is a warning that others should not follow the same procedure you did.

Regarding the subframe: how else do you get any room. He says to remove all upper bolts, not to completely remove the subframe (that would include the lower bolts).
I removed more bolts than was possible without removing the bumper (I had my bumper off), so I don't see how you can create space without using a lot of force.
Loosening the whole subframe is a lot of work I think.

 

[Midhurstman]

I don't understand why this seems to have become a competition of "my way is best".

Lets be clear: those are your words.

I blanked off the end of a 6mm wing nut by welding, I did not weld it to a stud! How would I have got it off when the stud was home?

I misunderstood that. I thought you made a little tackweld and when it was in you tapped the nut that broke the weld or something like that.

But sorry that we went off topic in maybe removing the waterpomp in the process for another user that is planning to do the vanos.
The title of your thread is somewhat misleading as it is a warning that others should not follow the same procedure you did.

Regarding the subframe: how else do you get any room. He says to remove all upper bolts, not to completely remove the subframe (that would include the lower bolts).
I removed more bolts than was possible without removing the bumper (I had my bumper off), so I don't see how you can create space without using a lot of force.
Loosening the whole subframe is a lot of work I think.

I agree with you, in that I couldn't see any other way to obtain more space, regarding the subframe and also in the fact that using force against the subframe is something that I wouldn't want to do. I think that when enough members join in with a thread it is natural to expand into other areas and no bad thing if we share other ideas. I hope I didn't convey to others that I think in making space by undoing the engine mounts that's its the wrong way to go because I definitely do not think its wrong, just a different way of doing it and possibly a more correct, but slightly more involved, way.

Yes, the original title was really to warn others that, even though I carried out the correct torque procedure, the bolt sheared, which was a surprise at such a relatively small torque of 6 ft-lbs. I hoped it may help others who were considering carrying out the procedure to avoid it possibly happening to them.

looking at your list of modifications and improvements you have certainly gained a great deal of knowledge in regard to the cars mechanics, compared with many of us. I am not sure I would be confident enough to tackle all the things you have, so hats off to you. This is the pioneering that makes the forum so great and helps all of us so much with our own cars if we want to make improvements or carry out maintenance.

 

[zeefour-Scot]

Midhurstman you mentioned in a post (6 years ago!)

omsZ4..... That is the whole problem with failing vanos seals, you just don't know for sure. If you have owned the car for a few years, the loss of performance is so gradual you don't really notice it. If you read the Beisan story on their website, apart from showing how much they put in to proving this problem, they also state that all vanos seals after completing 20,000 miles are probably worn and will continue to get worse. Its the poor composition of the O rings which are not the superior Viton as used in the replacements. BMW only offer the whole unit as a replacement, at I think, something like £800 but, believe it or not, they still use the inferior seals! Incidentally, I believe this is only a problem in the E85/E86 up to 2006, I wonder what BMW did to put this right?

Just checking, But were the standard seals upgraded to Viton after 2006? I have a 58k on my 3.0si and just thinking about proactive mtce.

 

[yg54sg]

great write up, mine is on 130k and no vanos seals have ever been done (had it from new) every now and again around 2.5k-3k I get a surge of power usually in second gear as if someone has lightly touched the throttle a little more... I am guessing this is the vanos kicking inwhich makes me think majority of the time its not. I guess I will add this to the todo list!

 

[DSGRNMCM]

Another amazing write up.

 

[GuidoK]

I believe this is only a problem in the E85/E86 up to 2006, I wonder what BMW did to put this right?

Making a different engine :roll: (m54 vs n52) (Which of course solved just as many problems as it created new problems :lol
The n52 has a completely differently constructed vanos system.

BTW the viton rings also still have to proove themselves (Viton isn't age free but it ages differently to NBR so it may solve one problem but could bring others). Who has done 100k+ miles after their vanos revision? Because that's the kind of mileage you have to run to see for certain that there may be a noticeable difference.

 

[Southwestz4]

Great write up....I am planning to do mine soon ...would this be the bolt that sheared off...just so I can order some in advance! :!: