Vanos rebuild question

[e85van]

Recently jumped into deep end and rebuilt the Vanos on my 03 e85 with a 3.0i M54 engine. Apart from access issues (and losing/finding one bolt), I was successful and the car restarted up fairly easily. I should mention that while I was in there I also replaced the plugs and the valve cover gasket. I rebuilt the Vanos for a number of reasons, but mainly because of some weird/erratic idle issues on cold start up and a noticeable delay in throttle response when sitting in neutral.

So my question is how long does it take for improvements to be seen after a Vanos rebuild job. We are in the middle of winter now (in Canada) so I can’t take her out for a spin. Best I can do is idle her in garage with the door open. Reason I ask is because after the rebuild, it seems both of the above issues are still present.

Any input from those more experienced than I would be most helpful!

Thanks in advance,
E85van

PS: I also ordered the injector rebuild kit. Have not installed that yet …. Perhaps it will help. Planning on doing that in early January.

 

[Jembo]

Suggest you check coil packs (they aren’t but IMO a periodic service item) & the throttle body

The latter is known to wear out & can break off with dire consequences - easy to change to a nice metal one

After that a nice Italian tune up in fairer weather to clear out the injectors

 

[bigwinn]

Honestly you should see improvements immediately when comparing pre/post; and that’s in low end, over 4k revs and with mpg

People say it needs 100miles or so to settle but I’ve never really seen that

If you were having running issues before as jembo says I would check the usual suspects- especially air leaks in the CCV system and intake boots

 

[Joez4]

I've just completed this job myself and took the car for first drive, I noticed an improvement in the lower rpm range, the car takes off easier and the gear change is smother in the lower gears, reversing the car around the drive feels smother too, removing the cdv helped with this but the car still felt difficult to get good shifts from 1st to 2nd it's early days for me but this felt much better and I haven't driven the car in over 2 months

I didn't give it any beans as I replaced the radiator, water pump, ccv, vcg, and ofhg all at the same time so I was very cautious.

I didn't have any idle problems before, the only real reason for rebuilding the vanos was the fact that pretty much everyone says it makes the engine run better and I've replaced everything I can on it that's a known problem on m54 engine.

I'm not sure the bedding in process is linked to to the seals probably more likely its the car adapts to a proper functioning vanos, as my seals were well knackered so the car must have adapted to that in the first place

 

[e85van]

Thanks for the replies - appreciate the input.

I should have mentioned that I also rebuilt the DISA valve as part of my original work. Not sure that is material but thought I’d mention it as it’s on the intake side of the engine (like the CCV).

Coil packs is a good suggestion - I doubt these have ever been replaced, so I think I’ll do that.

The CCV replacement looks rather involved…. So I’m a little hesitant to start that right away.

Thoughts?

 

[enuff_zed]

Have you cleaned the idle control valve? Sits behind the disa. Not too hard to remove with the disa off and a bracket removed. It should rattle when you tip it from side to side. The valve sticks and a spray of brake cleaner and a good shake works wonders

 

[Joez4]

Thanks for the replies - appreciate the input.

I should have mentioned that I also rebuilt the DISA valve as part of my original work. Not sure that is material but thought I’d mention it as it’s on the intake side of the engine (like the CCV).

Coil packs is a good suggestion - I doubt these have ever been replaced, so I think I’ll do that.

The CCV replacement looks rather involved…. So I’m a little hesitant to start that right away.

Thoughts?

If you remove the oil filter housing then the ccv is pretty straightforward to replace as you will have excellent access, easier than the vanos rebuild I think, plus the oil filter housing gasket will fail at some point if its original so its a good thing to replace anyway whilst your there.

If you do decide to do the ccv I recommend changing the throttle body gasket and the oil dipstick tube gasket whilst your there and like enuff_ zed said clean the idle control valve and the throttle body whilst it's all off the car, and check all the intake boots for rips etc when putting it all back together.

 

[e85van]

Thanks very much for the info. I’ll do some additional research on line (videos, etc) to see how it’s all done.

Looks like some Christmas break research is happening in my house!!

I’ll post an update.

E85van

 

[e85van]

Ok - so I removed the Idle Control Valve and cleaned it. While I was there I also removed the throttle body and cleaned it. Both were dirty but not too bad. I noticed a couple very small cracks in the air intake boot. Temporarily closed those while I order a new boot.

Despite this, I still have the lazy throttle response, and the issue of how the car does on initial/cold startup. The car gives me no error codes by the way.

So far then, I’ve done the following to eliminate the above issues:
- new valve gasket
- new plugs
- new air filter
- Vanos rebuild (with anti-rattle)
- ICV cleaning
- throttle body cleaning
- search for air intake boot leaks

What’s next? Was thinking of the following (in this order):
- rebuild all injectors
- install new coil packs
- replace CVV (complete with new hoses)

I don’t suppose anyone has any other ideas or suggestions??

 

[Joez4]

Changing the coil packs might be a good shout expecially if they are all original. I would have thought a leak in the ccv would throw a code but it's still a good thing to replace again especially if it's original.

Maybe check fuel trims and see what your getting, you could still have a vacuum leak but no codes, my intake boot was ripped and had the infamous whistle whilst accelerating but never threw a code.

How old is your battery? An old battery on these cars can cause allsorts of unusual behaviour.

What are you using to scan for codes?
I've found ista on a laptop finds codes that my basic code reader sometimes doesn't find, ista will sometimes display a fault but says its not currently present but has been at some point to trigger it.

 

[e85van]

Thanks for the response JoeZ4.

Not sure about coil packs but think they are original (Bosch). Car only has 54000 miles and I'd expect them to last longer than that though. Having said that, they are easy enough to replace, so they're next on my list.

Not sure what you mean about checking fuel trims - can you elaborate? I was hoping that rebuilding the injectors with new seals and filters would help deal with any fuel intake issues. I'll do this after the new coils are in.

Battery appears to be in good shape, but I'll charge it overnight to confirm. I've seen nothing that might indicate its on the way out.

As for code scanners - I bought the Carly scanner (primarily to access the key-fob activated remote roof open close). It does tell me there are some vehicle lighting issues but I think that's because the previous owner went to all LED interior lights. No other error codes come up.

E85van

 

[e85van]

Spent some time last night looking into fuel trims. Thanks for the redirect, JoeZ4. I’ll look into whether or not my Carly coder will give me fuel trim data (short and long term). If it does, that may help direct me to the source of the problem.

-38 degrees Celsius here today - so won’t have the garage door open for very long while doing the tests!!!

Welcome to northern Canada in the winter!!! LOL

E85van

 

[Joez4]

I think the general consensus on coil packs is they either work or they don't and when they don't you get a misfire and codes, I did change mine tho as I had 3 different makes, 2 original Bmw, 2 Bosch and 2 unbranded.
I have read somewhere that changing them has fixed problems for some who didn't have codes and misfires etc, maybe worth checking they are all connected properly and clean the connectors with contact cleaner.

I don't know much about fuel trims other than if they are high it usually indicates a vacuum leak the engine can compensate for it to some extent by increasing the amount of fuel, if it's too much it triggers an engine light I think, if you can smoke test the system to check for leaks.

Unfortunately live data on Carly does not work, well it doesn't on my 04 car, if you email Carly asking why this doesn't work then they will give you a partial refund, I got £17 back.

I also have led interior lights and it will always trigger a code in the gm5 module think it's interior lighting open circuit or something.

Don't know much about fuel injectors other than watching a video on YouTube about testing them for leaks and seeing that they can be rebuilt or sent to a professional to be cleaned and rebuilt.

 

[e85van]

Thanks for the reply.

I already had the injector rebuild kit and was going to do this anyway so I did that job today. Finished it in about 2-3 hours (first time) and it went fairly smoothly. It doesn’t appear to have solved the lazy throttle response issue, but I can only tell so much idling it in the garage.

What I did notice was that the fuel rail didn’t really have any pressure in it when I pushed the release valve (no fuel came out at all). Now I’m wondering if I have a low pressure issue on my fuel pump.

Thoughts from anyone??

 

[Joez4]

I've looked into the fuel injector removal process it looks quite fiddly but its something I'd like to look at doing at some point to rebuild and make sure they are working well but maybe I should leave them alone as they seem OK. Did your injector filters look dirty?

Anyway did you remove the fuel pump first and start the engine till it cut out before pressing the schrader valve?

If you did then I think it wouldn't have much pressure there would it?

I have heard that the fuel pump filter can get blocked.

I do think you really need to get the car out on a long drive and see what happens and scan for codes afterwards obviously not possible in your current weather, if the dme does need to relearn adaptions from the new vanos seals then maybe the 100 miles or so is what's needed, you could do a full adaptation reset in ista but I didn't want to mess with in case it created problems.

 

[e85van]

Fuel injector rebuild was pretty easy. I just took my time (and lots of pics along the way). The biggest problem I had with the job was installing the metal retainer clips on each injector. Besides that, it was pretty straight forward. I wouldn’t hesitate doing it.

The filters on the injectors were pretty dirty. Also the bottom of each injector was also dirty with carbon. Not at the very end where fuel is delivered, but around the sides of each injector. I cleaned them up nicely with some carb cleaner I had around, removed the old filter and put in new, then added new seals top/bottom. That’s was it.

I think you’re right about getting it out for a good run as soon as I can. The car will have to adapt to the new Vanos seals anyway - so I want to limit the amount of other changes I make. I also want to get on with the interior upgrades (mainly leather wrapped dash, new leather on the shifter and park brake, etc.

Lots to do and spring is coming!!

Thanks for the assist!!

E85van

 

[e85van]

Forgot to mention that I did not pull the fuel pump fuse and run engine dry of fuel before checking the fuel rail pressure release valve. That’s why I was wondering about possible fuel pressure issues. I can hear the fuel pump ‘spool-up’ when I turn on ignition (so I know it’s working). Might look into the fuel pump filter and possible tests I can undertake in the fuel delivery system.

The comment re Carly and no live data makes me wonder about which coder/reader is best for the E85. What do others use?

 

[Joez4]

Every guide I've read says to run car dry to release the pressure so I'm thinking it would be under quite a bit of pressure but I don't know, someone else will probably be able to answer that for you.

From what I've read getting to the fuel pump/filter isn't easy.

Think most people on here use a creator or autophix, they are both bmw specific I think.