Urgent! E85 won't turn over

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Dr. Zed

Active member
 Swindon
Hi all,

So I went to leave today and the car won't turn over. the first turn will turn on the lights, radio etc without issue. And then when I go to start the car by turning further it won't start. Not even an attempt. Just nothing. There's a brand new battery in there and all the electrics come on. It's as if there's no spark or something.

Any ideas? Could it be the key?
 
Starter motor. If you give it a tap with a length of wood and a mallet you might get it to kick in. Only a temporary solution mind.

Just make sure first that all your dash lights come on as normal when you have it in position 2.
 
ph001 said:
Starter motor. If you give it a tap with a length of wood and a mallet you might get it to kick in. Only a temporary solution mind.

Just make sure first that all your dash lights come on as normal when you have it in position 2.
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Literally using a hammer for the job huh?
All lights come on as they should I believe. battery, engine and all the other important ones come on. Just doesn't want to start.
 
As ph001 suggests, give the starter a tap while someone tries to start it for you.
Failing that its new startermotor time.
 
Blimy it must be starter motor failure month, mine did exactly the same as yours, ignition on all dash lights as normal, turn to start and nothing, wouldn't turn over. I did smack it with a hammer and got it working again, a few more test starts and the starter motor died completly. Sourced a replacement for my 2.5 from Carparts4less on line sub £50 + a £24 surcharge , got to send old one back. Fairly easy to get it out and new one in on the 2.5, just disconnect the battery berfore you start the job.
 
Thanks for all the replies! I've had to get it towed to a local garage in the end. Tapping it wouldn't work at all. If you're saying it's not too difficult that's good, shouldn't cost too much to get it done so.
I used to do most of the work on all my cars myself but the Zed is so damned low I can't it on my ramps :P :oops:
 
colb said:
Blimy it must be starter motor failure month, mine did exactly the same as yours, ignition on all dash lights as normal, turn to start and nothing, wouldn't turn over. I did smack it with a hammer and got it working again, a few more test starts and the starter motor died completly. Sourced a replacement for my 2.5 from Carparts4less on line sub £50 + a £24 surcharge , got to send old one back. Fairly easy to get it out and new one in on the 2.5, just disconnect the battery berfore you start the job.
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Good call Col B
 
Roberltd2 said:
colb said:
Blimy it must be starter motor failure month, mine did exactly the same as yours, ignition on all dash lights as normal, turn to start and nothing, wouldn't turn over. I did smack it with a hammer and got it working again, a few more test starts and the starter motor died completly. Sourced a replacement for my 2.5 from Carparts4less on line sub £50 + a £24 surcharge , got to send old one back. Fairly easy to get it out and new one in on the 2.5, just disconnect the battery berfore you start the job.
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Good call Col B
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At last, I'm no longer a Newbe!
 
It can also be the ignition key lock switch.
Both that and the starter motor are known failure points.
Easy to diagnose: measure if the relais gets a +12v on the signal tab when someone tries to start the car.
If there's voltage, its the starter motor, if there's no voltage it's the key switch.
 
GuidoK said:
It can also be the ignition key lock switch.
Both that and the starter motor are known failure points.
Easy to diagnose: measure if the relais gets a +12v on the signal tab when someone tries to start the car.
If there's voltage, its the starter motor, if there's no voltage it's the key switch.
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It's gone to the garage now so it's in their hands but I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What's a relais, and the signal tab, and where are they?
 
He means relay, but usually if all the ignition lights come on as normal in position 2, it's not an ignition switch problem - which is why I asked the question originally.
 
Most likely the starter motor has died but quite right to mention the other possibility of the ignition switch going duff. The switch is resonably easy to access it lives under the lower steering wheel trim, one screw on the underside and unclick it at its joint with the upper cover and it falls away revealing the ignition switch. The switch is held in by two small grub screws painted over to prevent them comming loose. Pick the paint off them and loosen them off so the switch body comes free from the ignition barrel. If you want to test whilst still installed if memory serves me right its a black wire that sends 12v signal to the starter when the key activates the start position on the switch. If you get 12 volts then the switch is fine, it will be the other end at the starter motor thats failed. You could check that the 12v signal wire is getting to the motor end by checking with a test lamp or meter, its the single small wire connected to the starter motor. If that checks out then its going to be the starter motor gone duff.
 
colb said:
Most likely the starter motor has died but quite right to mention the other possibility of the ignition switch going duff. The switch is resonably easy to access it lives under the lower steering wheel trim, one screw on the underside and unclick it at its joint with the upper cover and it falls away revealing the ignition switch. The switch is held in by two small grub screws painted over to prevent them comming loose. Pick the paint off them and loosen them off so the switch body comes free from the ignition barrel. If you want to test whilst still installed if memory serves me right its a black wire that sends 12v signal to the starter when the key activates the start position on the switch. If you get 12 volts then the switch is fine, it will be the other end at the starter motor thats failed. You could check that the 12v signal wire is getting to the motor end by checking with a test lamp or meter, its the single small wire connected to the starter motor. If that checks out then its going to be the starter motor gone duff.
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I ran a volt check on the ignition switch fuses and they came back green so if that had of gone, would the fuses give a positive? Just trying to determine whether that would in itself rule out the ignition.
 
ph001 said:
He means relay, but usually if all the ignition lights come on as normal in position 2, it's not an ignition switch problem - which is why I asked the question originally.
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Yup, dash lights up like christmas as it should so perhaps not then. The garage is due to ring me tomorrow so we'll see what they say and I'll update here.
 
ph001 said:
He means relay, but usually if all the ignition lights come on as normal in position 2, it's not an ignition switch problem - which is why I asked the question originally.
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Isn't the starting procedure (so engaging the starter) a seperate setting on the ignition key switch?
So that can be broke regardless of if the dash gets power or not.
It's a simple test, takes less than 30 sec to diagnose.
When starting (and the starter isn't turning over), measure with a multimeter (or a 12v voltage finder) between chassis (ground) and the small wire going to the solenoid on the starter (the solenoid has 2 large screwterminals, one for main battery voltage and one goes to the starter, and a small spade terminal for the starter signal, that's the one you must have). If there's power and the starter doesnt turn its the starter motor, but if there's no power, its the ignition switch.
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Just for reference for future people that are going to tackle this problem in person. (and for following the warning on the sticker :lol: :wink: )
Starter problems are usually heard weeks in advance (that is, if you know what to listen for).
If you catch them early, one can just swap out the brushes (costs about 10 quid); if the starter quits, there is a chance a platelet on the collector is burnt and you need a new starter.

But as the car went to a garage there is no further point for this topic.
 
So, an update. It was the starter in the end. The also wanted to swap the batteries but then noticed it was brand new and just left it in and let it charge when the car started again (it had obviously drained a bit from me trying to start the car).

Thanks all!

On a side note @GuidoK, what noises should I have been hearing if the starter was on it's way out? I don't recall hearing anything unusual at all up to it packing it in.
 
Heard plenty of starters get noisy in the run up to failure over the years but when it went on my E85 there were no funny noises. It just started to turn over slightly slowly a few days in advance of a complete failure
 
MACK said:
Heard plenty of starters get noisy in the run up to failure over the years but when it went on my E85 there were no funny noises. It just started to turn over slightly slowly a few days in advance of a complete failure
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I hadn't noticed it struggling to turn over, nor have I noticed a quicker turn over since getting it replaced so no idea.. One of those things I guess..
 
Dr. Zed said:
On a side note @GuidoK, what noises should I have been hearing if the starter was on it's way out? I don't recall hearing anything unusual at all up to it packing it in.
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A slight hissing noise when the starter is engaged.
It is faint but it's there.
It was bugging me when I had it but I couldn't place it. FYI I did't replace my starter but I just put new brushes in it (and cleaned the commutator with some scotchbrite), and after that it was gone. So its not due to a different startermotor, it was apparently an effect of the very worn brushes.
I don't know if you actually hear the worn brushes, or maybe excessive sparking of the worn brushes but its related to it.
The startermotors die because of worn brushes. At one point they can even start arcing severely (when one brush cant make proper contact anymore), burning out the commutator. When you open up a used starter, they are also full of worn brush dust.

You can get spare brushes but quite difficult because the brushes sold are not linked to car models (these parts are usually only sold and bought by specialists, so they know where to be and what to get).
This one for instance fits:
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/era/7990196 (but there are cheaper retailers)
 
Thanks for the info mate. I'll bear it in mind for future.
I definitely didn't hear anything of the sort close to when mine went but perhaps now I'll keep an ear out for it in future :)
 
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