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Upgrade 20i to 28i performance
- Thread starter GoSteve
- Start date
stuartinzg said:R.E92 said:stuartinzg said:If they share the same internals, why would a remap only take you to 28i levels? A 28i can be boosted to over 300.
Something doesn't add up :?
I don't think there's a proper remap available for that engine, it's just a piggyback unit.
It's quite possible both engines are capable of outputting the same power but since piggyback tuning is limited to fudging a few sensor readings then for the time being I doubt the 20i will get close to 28i figures. There's only so much leeway the stock ECU allows before throwing codes when you start increasing the boost pressure and fuelling. The JB4 is quite good at avoiding them but each generation BMW seem to add a few more checks to catch out piggybacks.
Once the ECU is cracked on that engine then you might find the 20i becomes a complete bargain. Similar to how the old 3.0 E9x 325d could be tuned to the same levels as the 330d. I wouldn't hold out much hope for a full crack though, people won't be spending much R&D money on the platform since it has limited appeal to modders.
Correct me if I'm wrong, then why can't you plugin a 28i ECU and reprogram it? Or am I being simples?
Now this may sound a bit crazy but according to real oem the 18i/20i and 28i all share exactly the same engine, turbo and injectors etc. however the 18i has a different ecu part numbers listed to the 20i but the same ecu as the 28i. So I'm thinking would it be possible for a clever programmer/remapper to remap a 18i to the same spec as a remapped 28i. So taking it from around 150BHP to 300BHP and from 175 lb ft to 315 lb ft! Given the relative value of a 18i to a 28i that would be one hell of an upgrade on the cheap. Surely I'm missing the catch with this somewhere, but at the moment I can't really see it. All the bits that matter seem to be identical part numbers and all I can think is it down to the software.
stuartinzg
Active member
MACK said:stuartinzg said:R.E92 said:I don't think there's a proper remap available for that engine, it's just a piggyback unit.
It's quite possible both engines are capable of outputting the same power but since piggyback tuning is limited to fudging a few sensor readings then for the time being I doubt the 20i will get close to 28i figures. There's only so much leeway the stock ECU allows before throwing codes when you start increasing the boost pressure and fuelling. The JB4 is quite good at avoiding them but each generation BMW seem to add a few more checks to catch out piggybacks.
Once the ECU is cracked on that engine then you might find the 20i becomes a complete bargain. Similar to how the old 3.0 E9x 325d could be tuned to the same levels as the 330d. I wouldn't hold out much hope for a full crack though, people won't be spending much R&D money on the platform since it has limited appeal to modders.
Correct me if I'm wrong, then why can't you plugin a 28i ECU and reprogram it? Or am I being simples?
Now this ay sound a bit crazy but according to real oem the 18i/20i and 28i all share exactly the same engine, turbo and injectors etc. however the 18i has a different ecu part numbers listed to the 20i but the same ecu as the 28i. So I'm thinking would it be possible for a clever programmer/remapper to remap a 18i to the same spec as a remapped 28i. So taking it from around 150BHP to 300BHP and from 175 lb ft to 315 lb ft! Given the relative value of a 18i to a 28i that would be one hell of an upgrade on the cheap. Surely I'm missing the catch with this somewhere, but at the moment I can't really see it. All the bits that matter seem to be identical part numbers and all I can think is it down to the software.
Thing is, I can imagine BMW saving money where ever they can, so I can't believe the clutch, brakes and other components which can reliable take 300 bhp will be fit on a car with 150. I just can't see it. Maybe 20 years ago in the E30 era but not now. My dad took apart my E92 and commented how s*it everything is compared to his previous 944 S2. The quality of the parts is now all about doing it on the cheap. The E89 comes with single piston calipers on a car with 340+ hp. :roll:
Quick update guys - the cam sensor plug had some waterproof tape on it that was slightly squashed. Flattened it out and the connector fitted properly. No error lights, no issues!
The TMC unit has made a very noticeable difference to the 20i - I can believe it's now in the 235bhp region quite easily. I would say the increase in torque is even more noticeable, accelerating in higher gears is no longer the challenge it was. It does still take a bit of time to get going, but once it does you can feel a big difference.
Very impressed overall.
The TMC unit has made a very noticeable difference to the 20i - I can believe it's now in the 235bhp region quite easily. I would say the increase in torque is even more noticeable, accelerating in higher gears is no longer the challenge it was. It does still take a bit of time to get going, but once it does you can feel a big difference.
Very impressed overall.
Amg01 said:dvd112 said:hello, if it puts your mind at rest mine was absolutely fine, hopefully once in place it will be ok. D
How long have you had it? What has the difference been? You have said there have been no issue, do you mind telling me how much it was?
Difference is huge tbh, i have had it on the rolling road, marginally more torque than standard 2.8 touch more bhp. MPG has gone up, can't remember how much i paid for it, maybe 300 or so pounds. I have had it on the car for over a year and 17k miles.
Hi I have the stage 2 update, there are two I am certain or at least there was 18 months ago. The stage 2 was 250hp / 310 ft lbs. As said I have a graph somewhere.Kirvesuk said:Quick update guys - the cam sensor plug had some waterproof tape on it that was slightly squashed. Flattened it out and the connector fitted properly. No error lights, no issues!
The TMC unit has made a very noticeable difference to the 20i - I can believe it's now in the 235bhp region quite easily. I would say the increase in torque is even more noticeable, accelerating in higher gears is no longer the challenge it was. It does still take a bit of time to get going, but once it does you can feel a big difference.
Very impressed overall.
stuartinzg said:MACK said:stuartinzg said:Correct me if I'm wrong, then why can't you plugin a 28i ECU and reprogram it? Or am I being simples?
Now this ay sound a bit crazy but according to real oem the 18i/20i and 28i all share exactly the same engine, turbo and injectors etc. however the 18i has a different ecu part numbers listed to the 20i but the same ecu as the 28i. So I'm thinking would it be possible for a clever programmer/remapper to remap a 18i to the same spec as a remapped 28i. So taking it from around 150BHP to 300BHP and from 175 lb ft to 315 lb ft! Given the relative value of a 18i to a 28i that would be one hell of an upgrade on the cheap. Surely I'm missing the catch with this somewhere, but at the moment I can't really see it. All the bits that matter seem to be identical part numbers and all I can think is it down to the software.
Thing is, I can imagine BMW saving money where ever they can, so I can't believe the clutch, brakes and other components which can reliable take 300 bhp will be fit on a car with 150. I just can't see it. Maybe 20 years ago in the E30 era but not now. My dad took apart my E92 and commented how s*it everything is compared to his previous 944 S2. The quality of the parts is now all about doing it on the cheap. The E89 comes with single piston calipers on a car with 340+ hp. :roll:
You would think so, however I just had a look on real oem and the clutch, gearbox and even the rear diff are exactly the same on all three models. Brake wise the 18i and 20i run 300m front discs where as the 28i runs 340mm discs. But the rear brakes, master cylinder, abs/dsc pump/controller and the front struts/hubs are all the same on all three models. So its just the calipers and disc/pads that are different so all that's needed is a upgrade similar to what folks do on the E85 3.0i to 3.0Si spec. The front calipers cross reference as the same part fitted to the vast majority of E9X 3 series models so should be fairly cheap from a breaker.
What is pretty disgusting is BMW charge circa £33,500 for an 18i MSport Nav and £39,500 for the 28i MSport Nav as they are the same trim level I cant see teir being any real difference to equipment levels so you are paying a £6,000 premium for some slightly bigger, but still single pot calipers, discs and pads as well as some different software!
Twin Turbo
Active member
I don't know if you guys have tried removing the CATS - as I have and there was an definite improvement in performance
stuartinzg
Active member
Twin Turbo said:I don't know if you guys have tried removing the CATS - as I have and there was an definite improvement in performance
Not sustainable if you don't have a dodgy MOT, can be arsed refitting every year and/or don't want to run the risk of a police spot check. I thought about it then decided I can't be bothered and jut got rid of the secondary set. The n54 is a lot of work to remove and refit. 8+ hours.
Some de-catted cars will scrape through the MOT emissions check if left to warm up properly. Obviously you need an understanding garage for that who are prepared to leave your car running till it gets fully warmed up (half an hour or so) before sticking the emission probe up its arse.
stuartinzg
Active member
Which is as I said... not sustainable. Police can still do spot checks