Underpowered

[Bing]

Nearly all of us would like more power, but few of us really need more. I know that I'm no where close to utilising the car's full potential, I've more to gain by increasing my driving skills than by adding performance to the car.

^^^ this. For example, I rarely need to stick the accelerator to the soft stop on my auto to be enjoying myself, or to scare myself in the wrong place, let alone push it through the last half inch to the floor (which results in a kick down to the lowest possible gear and then proceeds to red line it through the range in full auto).

Question though - I didn't think trim level affected the engine output, rather the differences between the pre and post-facelift engines is different ? I thought the pre-facelift 3.0 has 231bhp, and the post has 265 ?

 

[MrGriff]

A lot of it is the power delivery. In the Zed it's quite flat, which makes it feel less fast. Hit 3k, full power. Something like a Mazda RX8 will feel much quicker because the torque is much less linear but actually the performance difference is, at best, marginal.

I managed 38.6mpg on the way home from Bordeaux in my 3.0, which is astonishing given that it can give 99 per cent of cars on the road a run for their money. To deal with the remaining one per cent will require my supercharged Wortec VXR Monaro, but that's not for a little while.

 

[cj10jeeper]

What sort of eats at me about the trim level differences is while there's over 30 hp difference between SE and SI trims, they are both exactly the same engine. What's different is intake, exhaust, ECU mapping. But by the time you do those mods to an SE, you've spent a lot of money to only gain 30 some hp. As others have said, you're better of trading in for ///M.

SE and SI have different engines M54 Vs N52 with its Magnesium block. The SI is the later generation and came with more power - simples.

 

[aquazi]

What sort of eats at me about the trim level differences is while there's over 30 hp difference between SE and SI trims, they are both exactly the same engine. What's different is intake, exhaust, ECU mapping. But by the time you do those mods to an SE, you've spent a lot of money to only gain 30 some hp. As others have said, you're better of trading in for ///M.

SE and SI have different engines M54 Vs N52 with its Magnesium block. The SI is the later generation and came with more power - simples.

I think the fella is referring to the USA.... where they have 2 versions of the facelift 3.0.. both N52, one si spec same as the UK only version and the other a 3.0i which is 220 something bhp.. basically around the same power as a 2.5si.

 

[aquazi]

I find removing unsprung weight can make it feel like a big difference.. try some lightweight alloys... the car feels much faster (although in reality prob isnt much faster!!)

 

[cj10jeeper]

What sort of eats at me about the trim level differences is while there's over 30 hp difference between SE and SI trims, they are both exactly the same engine. What's different is intake, exhaust, ECU mapping. But by the time you do those mods to an SE, you've spent a lot of money to only gain 30 some hp. As others have said, you're better of trading in for ///M.

SE and SI have different engines M54 Vs N52 with its Magnesium block. The SI is the later generation and came with more power - simples.

I think the fella is referring to the USA.... where they have 2 versions of the facelift 3.0.. both N52, one si spec same as the UK only version and the other a 3.0i which is 220 something bhp.. basically around the same power as a 2.5si.

Fair point, but then that is a standard marketing trick on other makes in the UK. Min Vs Cooper is a good example or Jaguar Diesel Vs Diesel S, where they are just a few peripheral software changes and the price shoots up.

 

[Mowflow]

What sort of eats at me about the trim level differences is while there's over 30 hp difference between SE and SI trims, they are both exactly the same engine. What's different is intake, exhaust, ECU mapping. But by the time you do those mods to an SE, you've spent a lot of money to only gain 30 some hp. As others have said, you're better of trading in for ///M.

SE and SI have different engines M54 Vs N52 with its Magnesium block. The SI is the later generation and came with more power - simples.

I think the fella is referring to the USA.... where they have 2 versions of the facelift 3.0.. both N52, one si spec same as the UK only version and the other a 3.0i which is 220 something bhp.. basically around the same power as a 2.5si.

I found this out by spending a whole night reading a thread about swapping the manifold in the SE for the SI one to give more ponies. Only found out on the last page that the 'mercans have slightly different engines.

 

[Adamski]

Right chaps.... to clear up the whole Si or SE thing.

In the UK -

2003-2005 3.0i models are all SE (bar a few early production models which aren't SE, they're un-designated). The 3.0i engine is the M54 variant - 231 PS

2006-2009 3.0 models are all Si designated - 3.0Si. They come in two trim levels, SE or Sport. They are all N52 and have c.265 PS

 

[Bing]

Along with stereo designations, I should have remembered the last time this conversation was had Adam :wink:

 

[sammyz]

Adamski, you need to get out more

 

[Adamski]

Someone needs to keep them informed :lol:

 

[bcworkz]

I'm afraid I mangled the translation between North America and European trim designations. Apologies. Should have stuck to what I know, you guys will know what I mean.

My point was (unbeknownst to me, apparently just in North America) the N52 comes in two variants, 3.0i at 218bhp and 3.0Si at 255bhp. Exact same engine. Let's skip over the difference in continental bhp ratings, the trim line difference is just a stupid marketing ploy and I don't like it one bit. My ire has less impact when I confuse everyone.

 

[bigbacon]

A lot of it is the power delivery. In the Zed it's quite flat, which makes it feel less fast. Hit 3k, full power. Something like a Mazda RX8 will feel much quicker because the torque is much less linear but actually the performance difference is, at best, marginal.

I managed 38.6mpg on the way home from Bordeaux in my 3.0, which is astonishing given that it can give 99 per cent of cars on the road a run for their money. To deal with the remaining one per cent will require my supercharged Wortec VXR Monaro, but that's not for a little while.

had rx8 before my 3.0i, not even close to the bmw..

 

[Adamski]

It's the like the Honda S2000 - has more horses under the hood, but the 3.0i Z4 feels quicker 99% of the time

 

[cj10jeeper]

I'm afraid I mangled the translation between North America and European trim designations. Apologies. Should have stuck to what I know, you guys will know what I mean.

My point was (unbeknownst to me, apparently just in North America) the N52 comes in two variants, 3.0i at 218bhp and 3.0Si at 255bhp. Exact same engine. Let's skip over the difference in continental bhp ratings, the trim line difference is just a stupid marketing ploy and I don't like it one bit. My ire has less impact when I confuse everyone.

I understand the frustration but as I posted above this is a standard marketing trick to make more money out of customers. It's really common and I could cite dozens of examples of exactly the same engine and drivetrain with just one variant having a different software map resulting in less power.

 

[Nova2k7]

I'm afraid I mangled the translation between North America and European trim designations. Apologies. Should have stuck to what I know, you guys will know what I mean.

My point was (unbeknownst to me, apparently just in North America) the N52 comes in two variants, 3.0i at 218bhp and 3.0Si at 255bhp. Exact same engine. Let's skip over the difference in continental bhp ratings, the trim line difference is just a stupid marketing ploy and I don't like it one bit. My ire has less impact when I confuse everyone.

I understand the frustration but as I posted above this is a standard marketing trick to make more money out of customers. It's really common and I could cite dozens of examples of exactly the same engine and drivetrain with just one variant having a different software map resulting in less power.

The new vauxhall corsa SRI is EXACTLEY the same as the VXR apart from the trim and an engine remap!

 

[bcworkz]

I understand the frustration but as I posted above this is a standard marketing trick to make more money out of customers. It's really common and I could cite dozens of examples of exactly the same engine and drivetrain with just one variant having a different software map resulting in less power.

Thanks for putting it in perspective. On further consideration, my frustration is that this stupid ploy worked so effectively on me, common practice or not. I knew full well about the ploy, but I could not bear to own an intentionally crippled engine. They got my extra money, but that's past history. If I had a crippled motor, it would eat at me every time I tried overtaking someone. Marketing ploys usually fail with me, but they knew which of my buttons to push on this one.