UKIP. Would You?

[Carol M]

A small island like ours cannot withstand an open doors policy, surely you can see that?

Agreed, but expressing your shock at the % of 'immigrants' is irrelevant.

Why is it irrelevant? It is far from irrelevant, in fact that is the most relevant thing about the problem, the percentage of immigrants we have coming into this country and our 'shock' at the problem because a problem it certainly is.

is decreasing and has been for some time. I agree that there needs to be a clamp down on "benefit tourists" and that net immigration needs to continue to improve to a point where there is an equilibrium. I strongly disagree with those asking for the UK to close it doors to immigration.

Nobody is saying that immigration should cease entirely, that is not an option. What is an option is controlled immigration. The amount of people coming to live here is not acceptable whichever way you look at it. We cannot sustain the numbers.

, the issues of: where will people live? how will the NHS cope? How will we support the welfare bill? These are problems we will face with our ever ageing population. How do we solve that? Cut all medical research and limit NHS availability to ensure that a few more people die prematurely.

Yes, of course we will still face these issues but with the added strain on resources from vast numbers of immigrants this can only make the problem much worse, whether they are benefit 'scroungers' or working here.

Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to any of these problems. Our advancements in medicine, health, quality of life etc coupled with our resistance to increase tax contributions/ retirement age is the real danger in my eyes. We want the government to help support the retired and needy, yet we don't want that help to come from our own pockets. It's simply not sustainable.

There are a lot of problems with government and politicians, but there are just as many problems with the general public's intolerance to change. We're all metaphorical Nimby's in some way or another. Unless our attitudes experience a paradigm shift, immigration will be the least of our problems.

 

[Anonymous]

Worth reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

That's all very well but they aren't referring to the Roma people etc who's sole intention is to steal, beg, claim whatever benefit's they can and never work

The UK provides the world hospital, the world benefit system, the world free housing system, a legal system which favours the illegal immigrant over the indigenous population, is legally dictated to by unelected euro idiots, has a political system where a politician can make promises to get elected then when in power renege on same, ie Cameron a few years ago promising a EU vote if he was elected

Here is someone that is taking us for a ride, I wonder if I can get free flying lessons

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/441209/Outrage-as-taxpayers-fork-out-10-000-bill-to-teach-Ethiopian-asylum-seeker-to-fly

 

[StevenH72]

Why is it irrelevant? It is far from irrelevant, in fact that is the most relevant thing about the problem, the percentage of immigrants we have coming into this country and our 'shock' at the problem because a problem it certainly is.

Nobody is saying that immigration should cease entirely, that is not an option. What is an option is controlled immigration. The amount of people coming to live here is not acceptable whichever way you look at it. We cannot sustain the numbers.

Yes, of course we will still face these issues but with the added strain on resources from vast numbers of immigrants this can only make the problem much worse, whether they are benefit 'scroungers' or working here.

I think this is going to be a case where we have to agree to disagree.

As the BBC link (posted earlier) details, immigration is a net contributor to the UK. Approximately, only 10% of the UK is currently developed land. if the 68% continue to be net contributors we can will be able to build more infrastructure to sustain the numbers. Albeit not forever, but a bigger problem in my opinion is the ageing population. Here we have a portion of the population certainly not acting as net contributors, this is the group that will not be sustainable....not immigrants. This is the issue we need to concentrate on. Solving immigration is easy in comparison.

We need to remember that public resources are not a fixed quantity.

A better question would be, not whether two thirds of the population will be immigrants, but whether these immigrants will be net contributors or not.

Furthermore, together with the ageing population, a constant drive towards the digital age and automation is going to be a huge problem. Our population will increase (with or without immigration) and the number of available jobs will not be sufficient. I think these issues warrant more public attention than immigrants, who make a net contribution to the country.

 

[Stuart Truman]

Most people cant afford the services they consume. Only the well off are net contributors. People generally earning over £70k. If we let them dodge the tax bullet the rest of us will have a shorter, ill educated and grim life.

Sorry Fin, I have to disagree. Over 70K doesn't come close, it's the mega rich and those that don't PAYE who are ducking the system. A benefits and healthcare system is needed, and should be funded from tax but it needs a radical overhaul to change the ridiculous situation we're in of funding benefit and healthcare tourists.

There is no way that it is fair that some people pay proportionately more while the exceptionally rich pay f*ck all. I'm happy to pay my fair share, but I don't think it's reasonable to pay "more more". We need all the loopholes closed, starting at the mega rich and corporate end, then work back. By that time they'd have reclaimed enough tax to implement a single rate system with an entry point that means the really low income people don't pay tax.

If you're on PAYE you're paying:
Income Tax
NI contributions
Tax on any insurance policies you have (and if you have a car that's mandated, as is a house insurance if you have a mortgage)
20% VAT
If you're lucky enough to be able to buy a new car. Car Tax (which is then subject to VAT)
Fuel tax on any fuel you put in your car, and probably on oil for the house if you heat that way

And probably some that I've forgotten. There was a study not so long ago that said people on the average income can be losing 70% of their income to tax. Some people are paying more.

Let's just stop and think about that. In any 37.5hr working week, you're working 26.25hrs before any of the money you earn is yours. Now how do you feel?

 

[Z4M-2006]

i cant believe you said that an ageing population is a problem......A huge percentage of this age group have paid thousands and thousands of pounds into "the system" only to receive a miserly state pension..Whats the current rate ?? £70 a week ?

Its a bloody disgrace the way some elderly people are treated in this country,the politicians should ashamed of themselves for pushing a lot of people into pension poverty..

Are we really living a lot longer ?? If so the only reason is because of better medicine thats keeping us going longer,cancer,heart disease and obesity has increased massively in the last couple of decades so if the stats and hype are to be believed then we must be dying earlier??.. Remember the old old saying of "you get your 3 score years and ten"?

If i make it to seventy without serious illness i will think myself very lucky... It was no different years ago!....

At 70 the government have had 50 years of tax and NI payments off you.....So its time for you to die and make way for some blanket clad peasant or some fat spotty oik with afterbirth still drying on her legs...

 

[Silverfox]

What a God aweful mess we are in :x

I'm voting for change, I'm gonna give UKIP a chance as the big 3 are all a bunch of oxygen thieves.

 

[Carol M]

I for one don't want our countryside eaten away by a concrete jungle of homes to accommodate all and sundry who want to come and live here.
We don't need to develop and expand and build for these people, we need to control their numbers so our 'green and pleasant land' remains so.
Yes, some of our countryside will have to be claimed to house the naturally expanding population but I don't accept that hoards of immigrants coming here should warrant destroying our countryside to house them.

 

[Stuart Truman]

As someone who has a smattering of Polish, Indian plus the French, German and whatever else makes up the typical mix of a "Brit" these days, and as someone whose kids can add Syrian Lebanese into their mix, I doubt I'd be welcomed in by UKIP.

I think UKIP can go swivel.

 

[ronk]

There was a "charismatic" chap who gained power in 1930's Germany when the country was in trouble and they needed to blame an ethnic group!

 

[Gargybloke]

From the BBC story about the British Somali terror suspect escaping:

"The UK government estimates there are still around 50 British jihadists training and fighting with al-Shabab in Somalia. That number is dwarfed by those heading to Syria to join al-Qaeda-linked groups there."

They will probably need their tatty UK passports refreshed.

Welcome them home with open arms brothers and sisters.... :?

 

[Stuart Truman]

From the BBC story about the British Somali terror suspect escaping:

"The UK government estimates there are still around 50 British jihadists training and fighting with al-Shabab in Somalia. That number is dwarfed by those heading to Syria to join al-Qaeda-linked groups there."

They will probably need their tatty UK passports refreshed.

Welcome them home with open arms brothers and sisters.... :?

Many of them will not be immigrants. They'll be Moslems who've been radicalised. A different issue really but the fact that they were able to become radicalised here is another indication of how f*cked up the country has become.

Still, it might be less of an issue if we stopped f*cking about with the politics of other countries

 

[Gargybloke]

"Many of them will not be immigrants."

Jeez, I just never knew there were so many white English jhadist Muslims about.
I'll be checking out anyone with a backpack sitting near me on the tube or bus in future!

 

[PerryGunn]

UKIP. Would You?

Nah, I'd have to really, really have the beer goggles on to try it on with Nigel Farage....



...exits stage left after trying to lighten the tone...

 

[Z4MO]

"Many of them will not be immigrants."

Jeez, I just never knew there were so many white English jhadist Muslims about.
I'll be checking out anyone with a backpack sitting near me on the tube or bus in future!

Rucksacks are so handy ...I haven't been able to use one since I left secondary school because of all this sh*t !

 

[sp3ctre]

There was a "charismatic" chap who gained power in 1930's Germany when the country was in trouble and they needed to blame an ethnic group!

This statement is exactly why the situation is not being tackled.... Carol was talking about the borders being open for people to come in, take up space in our country, claiming benefits. She specifically mentioned the Romanian issue where they are advertising ways of claiming benefits and there are companies actively helping them do so.

These people could be black, white, asian... muslim, hindu, christian... the issue is the ones coming here to claim benefits. An ethnic group was not to blame, just "people" coming in with no intention than to claim benefits.

We can debate it all we like as to whether overall immigration adds to the country or not, but please don't twist it like the media do and make it about race or religion.

 

[Stuart Truman]

We can debate it all we like as to whether overall immigration adds to the country or not, but please don't twist it like the media do and make it about race or religion.

+1 - that's dangerous ground. White people can be immigrants and non white people may be from a family that's been here several generations.

And by the way, on the white jihadists. That idiot US shoe bomber? White. The woman alleged to have been involved in the Nairobi shopping centre attack? White. That's just two off the top of my head.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abigail...hadists-in-america-are-white-born-in-the-u-s/

 

[Carol M]

There was a "charismatic" chap who gained power in 1930's Germany when the country was in trouble and they needed to blame an ethnic group!

This statement is exactly why the situation is not being tackled.... Carol was talking about the borders being open for people to come in, take up space in our country, claiming benefits. She specifically mentioned the Romanian issue where they are advertising ways of claiming benefits and there are companies actively helping them do so.

These people could be black, white, asian... muslim, hindu, christian... the issue is the ones coming here to claim benefits. An ethnic group was not to blame, just "people" coming in with no intention than to claim benefits.

We can debate it all we like as to whether overall immigration adds to the country or not, but please don't twist it like the media do and make it about race or religion.

Well said J
Its not about race, religion or colour its about people.

 

[Z4MO]

"Many of them will not be immigrants."

Jeez, I just never knew there were so many white English jhadist Muslims about.
I'll be checking out anyone with a backpack sitting near me on the tube or bus in future!

On a lighter note;

Rucksacks are so handy ...I haven't been able to use one since I left secondary school because of all this sh*t !

 

[sp3ctre]

"Many of them will not be immigrants."

Jeez, I just never knew there were so many white English jhadist Muslims about.
I'll be checking out anyone with a backpack sitting near me on the tube or bus in future!

Rucksacks are so handy ...I haven't been able to use one since I left secondary school because of all this sh*t !

You can say that again

 

[Lightning87]

a lott of left wing liberals over here on the forum i see