UK Gov Zero-Emission Vehicle mandate - discuss

[mcbutler]

Have a read of this…

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/six-european-member-states-set-back-track-petrol-ban

JL

Thanks for the link Jennifer.
Any info article makes interesting reading..
The ideas in the article would make a lot more sense to anyone, if only we were still in the EU!
Hopefully our gov will relax a bit about the whole thing as well, after all the UK only produces around 2% of global Co2 apparently so anything we do as a nation will only have the timiest effect anyway.

 

[Chris_D]

the power loss in a lithium battery over distance is les than the power loss in an ICE as wears with age.

That sounds like regurgitated EV marketing bullsh!t. Anecdotal at best.
You're going to have to back up that spurious claim with some verifiable evidence/published independent research if you want that to stick!

I got that from a friend in the car leasing business, it was mentioned in conversation how the lease prices of EV have dropped and its a lot to do with the expected drop in battery efficiency over time not happening. If they make big business decisions based on that its probably proven, you could probably find the research if you looked fior it .....

Purely anecdotal then.
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Chris_D]

I don’t think the power loss as such is the problem, it’s when a cell or a component in the circuitry that fails, resulting in a very expensive repair or replacement.

....or this
[youtube]yOA7qKMcjcE[/youtube]

 

[mcbutler]

That sounds like regurgitated EV marketing bullsh!t. Anecdotal at best.
You're going to have to back up that spurious claim with some verifiable evidence/published independent research if you want that to stick!

I got that from a friend in the car leasing business, it was mentioned in conversation how the lease prices of EV have dropped and its a lot to do with the expected drop in battery efficiency over time not happening. If they make big business decisions based on that its probably proven, you could probably find the research if you looked fior it .....

Purely anecdotal then.
Thanks for the clarification.

As i said;
'business does not make a decision on anecdotal evidence'
Maybe instead of being negative you take a while to actually research it. It took me about 2 min to discover that an EV battery has an operational life of 15 - 20 years in the vehicle degradation depends on type, ambient temp and other things but its averaged at 2% per annum.
And if you consider the chinese EV car maker NIO and their battery swap facilities its pretty much irrelevant anyway as you dont even buy the battery or have to charge it... This means the car is a LOT cheaper, you always have the latest battery tech, quicker than filling with petrol, no warranties for batteries and the end of the "the infrastructure isnt there' argument...

ANd as a note, this is a discussion thread, not an argument

 

[mcbutler]

I don’t think the power loss as such is the problem, it’s when a cell or a component in the circuitry that fails, resulting in a very expensive repair or replacement.

....or this
[youtube]yOA7qKMcjcE[/youtube]

Yeah these EV fire videos are bread and butter for the anti EV lobby.
Actual figures show EV fires are less than ICE - the big issue is that dealing with a lithium battery fire is very VERY difficult.
I have an E - Bike and a drone - since seeing videos of these battery fires i now charge the drone batteries inside the oven (lol) and the bike one is charged outside.
This was on BBC news last week, showed a few videos of scooters catching fire on charge in peoples living rooms and one young lady lost her life - shocking to watch.
From a bit of white smoke to a one metre long jet of flame like a blowtorch and a room full of toxic smoke in around 7-8 seconds, the flame burned right through the scooter deck!!
Scary stuff

 

[Chris_D]

I got that from a friend in the car leasing business, it was mentioned in conversation how the lease prices of EV have dropped and its a lot to do with the expected drop in battery efficiency over time not happening. If they make big business decisions based on that its probably proven, you could probably find the research if you looked fior it .....

Purely anecdotal then.
Thanks for the clarification.

As i said;
'business does not make a decision on anecdotal evidence'
Maybe instead of being negative you take a while to actually research it. It took me about 2 min to discover that an EV battery has an operational life of 15 - 20 years in the vehicle degradation depends on type, ambient temp and other things but its averaged at 2% per annum.
And if you consider the chinese EV car maker NIO and their battery swap facilities its pretty much irrelevant anyway as you dont even buy the battery or have to charge it... This means the car is a LOT cheaper, you always have the latest battery tech, quicker than filling with petrol, no warranties for batteries and the end of the "the infrastructure isnt there' argument...

ANd as a note, this is a discussion thread, not an argument

Who's arguing? You're the one who mentioned the word 'argument'?
So it's not possible to disagree with something in a 'discussion' then is it? HAve you set the rules here?
You come out with a grand statement about the long-term power-loss difference between ICE's and EV's and it just turns out to be an anecdote, from a casual chitchat between you and a car-lease dealer!
Then you try and back-pedal saying you've researched the powerloss in EV's but still don't substantiate any comparative losses in ICE's.
Bizarre!!

You remind me a bit of that feckless BBC reporter who got caught out by Elon Musk when asked to give a specific example of personal abuse he sustained on Twitter, but couldn't...because he just made it up!!

Mate, if you're going to make grand statements that you should reasonably expect people are going to disagree with then at least back it up with hard evidence before you go all coy, because after all, this is a discussion right?

To coin a topical phrase; 'ok, can we move on?'
:lol:

 

[Nanu]

Lets face it, no matter how the Govt plans to get us all into EV's by 2030, it ain't going to happen. As above the EU have already realised this is impractical.

The sales of EV's are dropping like a stone, the initial price is too high, electricity costs are rising and now plans to impose road tax at the same level as we currently pay. No wonder sales are not as planned. Add to that there will not be enough charging points this side of 2050, additional demand on electricity production and you have a perfect storm.

Yesterday I listened to a minister from the department of transport being interviewed by a motoring journalist. He panicked big time when asked if it was true that every multi storey car park in the country would have to be checked and possibly re built due to the potential additional weight of every car being electric

Sooner or later reality will sink in and this whole net zero con will have to be quietly consigned to the dustbin which is exactly where it should be now. The future is in fuel technology not batteries which still contain materials that pollute and which have to be disposed of.

(Controversial perhaps but hopefully still a discussion) :roll:

 

[Nictrix]

I dont actually think its possible to get everybody into electric cars ANY time in the future.
My boss cancelled his order for an E-tron after waiting over a year for it to materialise, bought a Toureg instead.

 

[Pondrew]

My boss cancelled his order for an E-tron after waiting over a year for it to materialise, bought a Toureg instead.

Diesel I hope? Just to pis$ 'em off! :lol:

 

[Nictrix]

My boss cancelled his order for an E-tron after waiting over a year for it to materialise, bought a Toureg instead.

Diesel I hope? Just to pis$ 'em off! :lol:

Yip.
Just read that MG are releasing a 2 seater soft top electric car. Looks like an MX5.

 

[Pondrew]

Just read that MG are releasing a 2 seater soft top electric car. Looks like an MX5.

I will bet Mazda have no knowledge of how that happened! They thought they just ordered a takeaway for delivery, then look what happened!

 

[Nanu]

Would go for a hybrid but more for an increase in performance.

Always thought the i8 technology in the Z4 would have been a winner.

Sadly not to be

 

[earthdweller]

It’s all madness it really is

I have nothing per se against EV’s and for some they are the perfect choice but for others they won’t ever work

When politics drives change it is never going to work out as the incompetents are forcing the unachievable on us with impossible time frames

Latest clip I saw was a US GOV Minister saying they are aiming for a fully EV Military fleet by 2030 … it’s just insane

But anyway


Watched a great documentary on DW/Reuters a few weeks back where they were highlighting a number of issues with EV’s

One of the interesting points was the number of low mileage minimally damaged EV’s that are being written off as uneconomical repairs particularly from certain manufacturers, Tesla and Stellantis being amongst them

It seems the battery packs are part of the structure of many EV’s and if they are damaged or suspected of being damaged then they cannot be repaired and the vehicle is written off

This is apparently causing some issues within the insurance industry and leading to much higher premiums

They were also at a dismantler in the U.K. who was saying that recycling EV’s was not easy or quick, vehicles had to be kept in isolation and very surprisingly they stated that there in no facility in the U.K. for recycling batteries and they now have a huge number of battery packs stored on site

They stated they were getting 30-40 low mileage minimally damaged total loss EV’s every day!

Sadly I can’t find the documentary online at the moment but did find this clip

https://youtu.be/rY3HJVTyRqA

 

[Nanu]

Very interesting but would love to see the full documentary.

When will the government wake up and realise EVs are causing more problems than they solve.