Tyre pressure non run flat

When I changed from run flat tyres (Potenza) to non run flat tyres (ASY5) I kept the recommended tyre pressure from BMW for my E86 on 18"; 33 psi front and 39 psi rear.

After some time, it was clear that the tyres got worn more in the middle, indicating that the tyre pressure was set too high.

At least in my case, the BMW recommended tyre pressures did not work with the non run flat tyres, resulting in uneven tyre wear.

I think a lower pressure; 32 psi front and 34 psi rear, would result in more even tyre wear.
 
Nictrix said:
Your theory here will only work if the 2 models have the same tyre sizes.

It's not a theory.

I bought the m240i & had a choice of runflat OR non runflat tyres on the same wheels.

I went non-runflat, and they changed the labels in the door jam / petrol cap to suit.
 
Not scientific but for me the side is definitely better with lower pressures. The run flats have stiffer sidewall compared to non run flats and as a consequence at the same pressures the NRF bounce more, just like a cheep plastic foot ball compared to a heavy leather one, IMHO
 
matsmith749 said:
Nictrix said:
Your theory here will only work if the 2 models have the same tyre sizes.

It's not a theory.

I bought the m240i & had a choice of runflat OR non runflat tyres on the same wheels.

I went non-runflat, and they changed the labels in the door jam / petrol cap to suit.
What does it show and what size ?
 
matsmith749 said:
Nictrix said:
Your theory here will only work if the 2 models have the same tyre sizes.

It's not a theory.

I bought the m240i & had a choice of runflat OR non runflat tyres on the same wheels.

I went non-runflat, and they changed the labels in the door jam / petrol cap to suit.
That wasn't your example earlier. You said between a 220 and an m240 which may have different tyre sizes.
That's why I said what I said.
 
I'd like a peer review of the following pls...


E89 tyre pressures

I’m changing to non run flat tyres..should I use the same pressures as run flat tyres on E89s?
Almost certainly not.
The E89 used an early design of run flat tyre Bridgestone Potenza RE050A that used extensive strengthening of the side wall to support the vehicle in the case of pressure lost. This is extra strengthening mandated slightly high pressures to maintain the correct profile compared to a similar non run flat tyre. This extra pressure is required also to stop the sidewall flexing as much as this, over time, damages the strengthening that supports the tyre in the event of pressure loss. The combination of stiff sidewall and higher pressures combine to create a disproportional less compliant ride and at the same time the tread cannot flex as well in corners creating negative handling characteristics when compared to current non run flat tyres. Later designs of run flats have to an extent engineered their way around some of these issues.
What pressures should I run with x tyres with y profile?
A few basic principles. For each tyre there is a load rating and speed rating. The highest pressures will be required when the actual load on the tyre approaches the maximum rated load of the tyre. Tyre pressures are also increased to support both transient and sustained high speed.
Some manufactures keep it very simple for the public with only one set of pressures. On the Mini F56 they have two sets of pressures, one for upto 2 passengers and one for upto 4 passengers, Volvo on the 2008-2016 XC70 have 6 pressure settings, Lower pressures for lower loads and higher pressures for higher loads and additional pressures for higher speeds.
BMW on the Z4 G29 do the same for speeds but not loads, but not in all markets.
Typical speed ratings are designated by single letters and on performance cars are for example V for speeds up to 149 mph Y for speeds up to 186 mph and ZR means speeds in excess of 149 mph. For initial approval and possible insurance reasons it is necessary to have tyres with speed ratings equal to or greater than the maximum possible speed of the car.
Load ratings are more complex and using a three numbers to designate the maximum static load the tyre can sustain. For example 108 equals a max load of 1000kg.
For the same reasons as speed ratings the load ratings have to equal or exceed to original manufacturers’ tyres load ratings.
So a Continental Sports Contact 7 275/19 30 has a load rating of 96 ie 710 kgs and a max pressure of 50 PSI for that load. Relevant is a higher profile tyre has a higher load index..the same tyre in 35 profile has a load index of 100 which is 800 kgs max load.
Now if we pair this rear tyre 275/19 30 with a matching front tyre say a 235/35 19 then we see its load index is 91 ie 615 kgs at 50 PSI.

Therefore it could be argued that the correct pressure for a set of fully loaded tyres should be 50 PSI for sustained speeds in excess of 149 MPH.
However is we look at a simple example and say our Z4 E89 weights fully loaded 1,800kgs and if we say for simplicity that weight distribution is 50/50 then we can see that each wheel has to support 1800/4 = 450 kgs.
Now our front tyres can support 615 kgs and rears 710 kgs. So the tyre pressure to keep the correct profile will be reduced from 50 PSI to something less. Sadly there is no mathematical formula that gives that answer.
The way that either the car manufacturer or tyre manufacturer determines this is by heuristic texting; a posh word for suck it and see.
The tyres are set at a guestimate based on past experience and then the tyres are tested on track and road. The distribution of tyre temperature across the tread indicates where and how the temperature of the tyre varies, underinflated its generally hot and hotter on the edges, over inflated generally cooler with max temp in the centre of the tread.
Wear rates, wear pattern and how the tyre interacts with the complex mechanics of suspension and steering allied to subjective and technical measurements of ride comfort and handing then result in proposed tyre pressures.
So the correct tyre pressure is a compromised solution based on the anticipated load, the expected speed envelope and the required steering responses, ride comfort and wear rates required.
Related to the Z4 E89 it can be seen by both looking at the preceding E85 and the successor G29 Z4s that typically pressures for a wide range of tyres in the 17” to 19” sizes range from around 28-32 PSI typically fronts to 32-36 PSI typically rears.
Examples:Z4M 30/32, Z4 M40i 32/35
 
B21 said:
Scooba_Steve said:
Worth just using the old 4 psi rule?

2-4 psi differential covers every Z4 bar the E89 :thumbsup:
Are we thinking of different things? I'm referring to set a pressure cold then drive steady for 30/60 mins and check the hot pressure. Should be a 4 psi difference.
 
Scooba_Steve said:
B21 said:
Scooba_Steve said:
Worth just using the old 4 psi rule?

2-4 psi differential covers every Z4 bar the E89 :thumbsup:
Are we thinking of different things? I'm referring to set a pressure cold then drive steady for 30/60 mins and check the hot pressure. Should be a 4 psi difference.
[/quote


Correct I was referring to the front / rear tyre pressure difference..the hot / cold temps will change for many reasons so IMHO based on what I’ve seen with tyre temp monitoring systems that is not a reliable or consistent methodology..
 
B21 said:
Correct I was referring to the front / rear tyre pressure difference..
Gotcha, still useful to know (if they have been set massively wrong)

B21 said:
the hot / cold temps will change for many reasons so IMHO based on what I’ve seen with tyre temp monitoring systems that is not a reliable or consistent methodology..
The best method is to take the tyre temperature across the tread width, it should be broadly the same. However, 4 psi difference hot vs cold has worked very well for me in the past at keeping wear even. So in the absence of anything other than the RFT pressures (being far too high) I think it's a good starting point that will almost certainly better than using the placard RFT values.
 
Scooba_Steve said:
B21 said:
Correct I was referring to the front / rear tyre pressure difference..
Gotcha, still useful to know (if they have been set massively wrong)

B21 said:
the hot / cold temps will change for many reasons so IMHO based on what I’ve seen with tyre temp monitoring systems that is not a reliable or consistent methodology..
The best method is to take the tyre temperature across the tread width, it should be broadly the same. However, 4 psi difference hot vs cold has worked very well for me in the past at keeping wear even. So in the absence of anything other than the RFT pressures (being far too high) I think it's a good starting point that will almost certainly better than using the placard RFT values.


It is correct that immediately after running the car over your ‘track’ that even temps across the tyre indicate that a combination of tyre pressure AND geometry are set correctly for your ‘track’ :thumbsup:
 
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