Track Z4 DCT Cooling Options For N54 700BHP

[huseyin88]

Hi everyone,

I've had the cursed limp mode every time I've been on a track day and its getting a bit annoying now as after 3-4 laps my cars done for and i have to go back to the pits and wait for it to all cool right down to enjoy another few laps, i could switch off and on but hardly get a lap after that so isnt worth it as temps are already up.

From what I've read it seems to be a DCT issue once certain temps are reached its triggered.

I'm currently running MHD stage 2 with all the bolt on's including PR coils, no cooling upgrades though. Cooling is set to the fast road mode and havent tried track yet in the MHD maps.

However rather than relying on a software change id prefer to have over engineered cooling upgrades but cant seem to find something for what i want.

I'm looking to build the car to around 700 with the pure turbos stage 2 once they go and do the motor same time.

So need some cooling to accommodate that rather than having to go back and upgrade again.

Will be upgrading engine rad to CSF and still considering engine oil options.

Thermostat will also be upgraded to mosselman 85'c version.

But this still leaves engine oil and DCT cooling.

Have seen the SSP kit but thats been tested on 500+bhp car at 40min stints.. fair enough was in a hot climate but an extra 200bhp will add a heck of a lot more heat in the bay tahn 500 so not sure that will or wont be good enough and dont want to pay over 2k to find out and then swap it out again.

The only other build close to this I've seen with parts listed is Soofy's GT3 build who uses a modified E9X csf dct cooler and a universal dual pass cooler

But havent seen mention of the car on track or how it behaves on there. I'm a regular track goer so would need something for that.

 

[B21]

Well simple arithmetic suggests that if you are making twice the BHP you will need twice to cooling capability…

However it’s worse than that Jim, you are asking for a performance profile that is way above what as a street car the cooling system was designed to do.

Given these N54s E89s run hot anyway it would appear that you need at the very least twice if not more cooling capability…

So inter cooler, oil cooler, gearbox cooler and radiator..plus ducting to allow cool air to get to those radiators..

 

[huseyin88]

Well simple arithmetic suggests that if you are making twice the BHP you will need twice to cooling capability…

However it’s worse than that Jim, you are asking for a performance profile that is way above what as a street car the cooling system was designed to do.

Given these N54s E89s run hot anyway it would appear that you need at the very least twice if not more cooling capability…

So inter cooler, oil cooler, gearbox cooler and radiator..plus ducting to allow cool air to get to those radiators..

already got the intercooler
csf rad in pipeline - unless other better options known to anyone..
mosselman 85'c thermostat in pipeline

gearbox and oil cooler seeking any tried and tested options.. or potentials beyond the CSF stuff..

I used mishimoto gear in my E46 M3 and was fine and worked well, but i never upped the BHP just used as a fast road track car.

However SeanS54 had the mishi on his 335 N54 and then swapped to a CSF setup as he still had issues.. so for that reason alone avoiding mishi

Seen PWR items in a lot of big HP builds so would also consider their stuff... if any of it fits or can find a decent retailer and not some back alley 0 feedback seller LOL. :?

 

[Mister T]

SSP do a good kit

https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-dct-heavy-duty-transmission-cooling-package.html

 

[huseyin88]

SSP do a good kit

https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-dct-heavy-duty-transmission-cooling-package.html

did see that, but i think they only tested on a car running 500bhp and if i go 700.. not sure it will or wont cope and dont really fancy having to buy another kit after...
do you have any experience with it by any chance?

 

[Mister T]

SSP do a good kit

https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-dct-heavy-duty-transmission-cooling-package.html

did see that, but i think they only tested on a car running 500bhp and if i go 700.. not sure it will or wont cope and dont really fancy having to buy another kit after...
do you have any experience with it by any chance?

No I don't, but have mates with track 135is that have similar.

My track car is a 530hp Nissan 200SX with a manual (300ZX) box, it's a very different beast to a modern BMW

 

[huseyin88]

SSP do a good kit

https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-dct-heavy-duty-transmission-cooling-package.html

did see that, but i think they only tested on a car running 500bhp and if i go 700.. not sure it will or wont cope and dont really fancy having to buy another kit after...
do you have any experience with it by any chance?

No I don't, but have mates with track 135is that have similar.

My track car is a 530hp Nissan 200SX with a manual (300ZX) box, it's a very different beast to a modern BMW

I had an s14a running a little less than you.
Those things can get hot but they don't have the stupid electronics these newer bmws have so don't shut everything off... I guess I should be thankful but yeh..

The 135is are they dct as that seems to be the problem child with the n54s the manuals get heat issues as well but dct just dies lol

I ended up buying the ssp kit anyway and will work it out as I go along.. as it doesn't seem there's many track used builds like that.. more straight line or odd track day apart from one guy out in China I found who regularly goes track.

Looking at the ER oil cooler as well that replaces oem one its 3.5x the oem one. Should have some impact with the other goodies I bought so let's see.. worst case I buy another and daisy chain them.

 

[R.E92]

Are you certain it's the DCT temperature causing the limp mode? You mentioned in another topic you are throwing overboost codes and exhaust cam codes. The overboost code will cause a limp mode.

You can monitor the DCT temps in MHD just to make sure.

 

[huseyin88]

Are you certain it's the DCT temperature causing the limp mode? You mentioned in another topic you are throwing overboost codes and exhaust cam codes. The overboost code will cause a limp mode.

You can monitor the DCT temps in MHD just to make sure.

Havent got a log from track to confirm, but regardless I'm going to upgrade the coolers for both DCT and engine as they are known issues regardless.

If after that overhaul I still get the issues I will see to checking the overboost codes if they appear again.

At least this way one thing will be ticked off the list I had planned anyway along with a few other bits i want done at the same time such as a possible dipstick, baffled pan and oil pressure sensor and can then begin the process of elimination with my limp mode after knowing cooling is fine.

However as I mentioned before these codes do not appear at any point during the day or any laps until the engine reaches higher temps and then I get all the codes which is why i still believe is cooling related.

Previously i have:
1. Cleared codes
2. Scanned again confirmed no codes
3. 3 hard laps first 2 laps are fine near end of 3rd one temps would reach threshold and then warnings and code are triggered.
4. Back to pits, scan and check codes (confirmed ones previously) clear codes, scan again - no codes appear - let car cool down.
5. Scan for codes - no codes - Go for 3 cool steady laps where temps dont reach thresholds to trigger warnings.
6. Back to pits, scan - no codes or issues - let car cool.
7. Back to 3 hot laps, warnings and codes triggered again only when temp thresholds are met.

the above can be triggered repeatedly every time i tested it on both colder and warm days.

Either way cooling overhaul parts are ordered so will be getting on with that once all delivered and try it out and see what the outcome is.

 

[tiglon]

The amount of money you must be spending on this, £50 to monitor what's going on with MHD seems a no brainer... especially as the last one burst into flames

I respect your ambition though, and I'm curious to see how this turns out - one way or another it should be spectacular

 

[huseyin88]

If sensor goes bad wont make a difference if i use MHD or Idrive..

Hence i'd rather have a manual dipstick as other people on track have had issues where they have ended up having to literally drain entire oil out measure and check to continue troubleshooting when they had pressure issues as the car kept telling them to add oil or oil level was too high.. simple dipstick 2 sec check

 

[tiglon]

I don't mean for measuring oil. You're heavily modifying a turbo engine - if I were you I'd want to know what's going on in there, particularly the AFRs, and particularly given the issues you are already having at 60% of your power target.

 

[huseyin88]

I don't mean for measuring oil. You're heavily modifying a turbo engine - if I were you I'd want to know what's going on in there, particularly the AFRs, and particularly given the issues you are already having at 60% of your power target.

O sorry i think i misunderstood your initial message.

I have got the MHD monitoring license now if thats what you was suggesting, i thought you meant instead of getting the dipstick just use MHD.. sorry mate

will eventually have an Aim dash or something along those lines so all those parameters will be in front of me on the dash screen replacing the oem speedo so i have eyes on it all times instead of away on a corner on track where i wont notice it which is why i hadnt bought the MHD monitoring license as all that would be included in the Aim logs as well as screen there and then.. but till then i guess as you said for MHD is defo no brainer..

lets hope the spectacular is a positive and not like the last fire ball

 

[tiglon]

I'm with you on the dipstick, I'd much rather have one than the digital readout.

lets hope the spectacular is a positive and not like the last fire ball

I hope so too, but either way it will be entertaining!