Track Days. Own sub forum ?

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citrapara

Member
Ladies, gents.

I wouldn't regularly check the Events/Meets section to check for up and coming track days that members may be attending as it doesn't seem to be a regular thing.

Would I post in here with the regular footfall to see if anyone is going or do the track dayers on here post on a different forum or check the Events section.

I'm at Snetterton Monday Evening next week and Brands Hatch on the Tuesday evening. Hope to see some Z4's about !
 
Hi citrapara - hows about posting up some information on track days and your experiences - I'd be interested in hearing about it and quite fancy a track day but wouldn't know how to take part - my nearest is Croft.
 
Id like to know how much stress it puts on brakes/tyres/engine. Obviously more than normal but is it going to smash the brakes to the point of needing new pads?
 
Rorybeanbutler said:
Id like to know how much stress it puts on brakes/tyres/engine. Obviously more than normal but is it going to smash the brakes to the point of needing new pads?
Click to expand...

New fluid and stainless hoses are a good upgrade for light track use, some new pads will help too :)
 
Hey guys.
Although I've done lots of track days on a motorbike this will be my first in a car !
There will be others better placed to give advice. I will certainly run a thread on my experience though.

Paul GS, I work only a few miles from Croft during the week so would join you on a day there some time. booking is very simple. There are a handful of reputable TD organisers. Almost all of my local circuits in the south are owned by MSV and bookings can be direct. I've just clicked onto the club MSV website, picked my session which will be An Evening Open pit lane on the 3rd and paid. That easy !

In terms of what session to book is much up to your confidence v's ability I suppose. I'm very new to performance cars so a Novice day or Road car only track day would probably be me first port of call.. However they come up much less frequently than regular track days such as 'open pit lane' where there is a wide mix of cars from mini's to Ferrari's.

I've opener for open pit lane because the date fits... I have a good grasp of the racing line.. Track etiquette and have already lapped the Snetterton 300 circuit for something around 9 hours in total on my GSXR. Also Snetterton is a long track with lots of overtaking opportunity for faster movers and the 3 miles means it will be a little while before your holding them up again.

If I find on the evening it's not working out I'd like to think I'd call it a day before someone tells me to!

My car is currently completely standard less racing brake fluid which I'll sort out over the weekend to give me half a chance. It took a few track days to be braking hard enough on the bike to get fade caused by fluid but when it happened it was scary. That was with a full Brembo HPK setup.
 
Rorybeanbutler said:
Id like to know how much stress it puts on brakes/tyres/engine. Obviously more than normal but is it going to smash the brakes to the point of needing new pads?
Click to expand...

I've had mine on track once at Snetterton with MSV, done 4 in total all open pit lane format. I have always found other drivers to be respectful on track & MSV run the day well. Although track day insurance is nice to have, just in case.

Mine has standard brakes all round and the run flats had 2mm thread on each one. In my first session on track, I noticed brake fade after 10 mins on track with heavy braking. For the rest of the day, I braked earlier and used the engine to slow the car and kept sessions to 15-20 min max and they held up fine.

The result was the tyres still had lost hardly any thread depth from what they had in the morning and the pads have loads of meat remaining on them (minute change). I did overheat the tyres midday though, they were soft on the surface and had collected loads of rubber pieces from other tyres left on the track.

I will be upgrading the pads/discs soon though as the discs are scored from age and the pads just can't take the heat from heavy abuse.
Regarding tyres, I will opt for Goodyear F1 Eagles, or Ultrac Sessantas. I fear the hum from the Federal 595 RSR's will drive me mad on the motorway.

Another trackday I'm going for is the GT circuit at Bedford in November, its 92 pounds with Javelin for the day.

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=1131itemid=11
 
Right, where to start :evil:

I've been doing track days since about 1994, and have done most of the UK ones at least once. I go to the 'Ring 2-3 times a year, but my local is Oulton Park in Cheshire. I've never really had what you'd call a track car as I've always used my road car with a few tweaks. First was a Polo G40, then a Corrado VR6, then a couple of e34 M5s, and now the Z4MC. I normally do about 150-200 track miles per day.

My first piece of advice for a track virgin is to take advantage of any free instruction you get offered.

The reason for the instruction is self-explanatory, and besides the obvious benefit of learning the lines it will help stop you from cooking your brakes due to incorrect braking technique. Don't be tempted to press the pedal harder & harder & harder as you'll just find you've got no grip left from the front tyres to actually turn you. Do you braking hard & early, and lift off the pedal as you approach your turning in point so that your front tyres have lots of grip left to turn you. This way you'll get the most cooling from the high speed air to remove the most heat from the brakes. If you keep on braking hard, you will not get enough airflow over the brakes and you'll boil the fluid/cook the pads in about 10 minutes - or will get a vibrating brake pedal due to pad deposits on the discs. Once you get a bit more comfortable I'd recommend turning off the traction/stability control as these will

My second piece of advice is to to start with a wet day. I know this sounds odd, but you'll learn more...at a slower pace...with less traffic...than you will on a warm summer's day. You can even turn your traction control off and spin safely at 30mph without hitting anything.

As for the car, I'd say your wear rate is about a factor of 3 vs normal driving for major components, but tyres & pads can be ruined by 'over-driving' the car - i.e. trying to go faster by braking/turning on the limit all the time - which normally just ends up with understeer/oversteer and ruined tyres.

I don't bother with an oil change before a track day as mine are quite frequent already, but I'd normally do a brake fluid bleed and check of the pads beforehand - and usually take a litre of oil, 500ml of dot 4.1/5.1 brake fluid and a set of pads just in case. Even if you don't end up using it, you could save someone else's day by giving them your's.

For me a set of pads last 3 events, and discs last a year. Tyres last all year - but that's because I'm doing less short circuit tracks and doing longer 'Ring trips which are not as heavy on the tyres. If you're tempted by a cheap 'airfield' day then be aware that some surfaces will eat tyres - e.g. Elvington near York can ruin a set of track tyres in about 20 laps if you slide the car too much.

Open pitlane events are great value for money over sessioned events, but they come with a few concerns. 1) you'll be tempted to spend all day out on track, which will not give you or the car time to rest between sessions. 2) you'll find other drivers in track prepared cars not wanting to come in, and thus you'll be sitting in a queue waiting to go out. 3) You'll use lots of petrol.

There's more, but I've got work to do. Will post more to the end of this post as I get a chance.
 
Track driving on here defiantly needs its own sub section. That way people like your man in the post above can write a thread of advice etc. Otherwise it will just get lost in the forum search engine.
 
This is all very interesting, I've often wondered what's involved in track days - my main concern is wear and tear of tyres and brakes. Looking forward to more information and advice.
 
citrapara said:
M5... Is it true you have to pay for repairs to the Armco etc at the ring ? Is insurance available against this ?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying any of the below to scare you, but I'm more than happy if it does because it may make you think twice about going over unprepared and expecting it to be all hunky dory in the event of a crash.

There's a good article about this on the BridgeToGantry website - and prices for repairs/closures on the Nurburgring.org.uk website

It is true, and I only know of one company that will cover £2000 (standard) or £4000 (for an extra premium) of this for UK drivers (insuremytrackday.com - aka Ryan Motorsport Insurance).

Cost for crashing are something like:
  • Base fee for attendance of armco truck: €150
  • Removing damaged armco: €10/metre (x2 or x3 or x4 for multiple-height sections)
  • Replacement armco: €31/metre (x2 or x3 for double/triple height)
  • Removing damaged armco posts: €5.10 each
  • Replacing armco post: €39 each
  • Safety car attendance: €82 per 30 mins (car + 2 people)
  • Circuit closure: €1,350 per hour
  • Recovery truck: €250 (inc VAT)
  • Hospital stay & air ambulance: Let's just say, do NOT go there without travel insurance! (Though a European Health Card - which replaced the E111 - may cover the hospital bit.)
The insurance situation at the 'Ring has got worse & worse for UK drivers over the last 20 years. You used to be able to rely on your UK policy to cover you for everything, then they started excluding the 'Ring specifically as a 'prepared course'. This was sorted by taking out 'track day' cover from one of the motorsport insurers (I use MORIS and it costs me about £70/day with a £1000 excess). Then the insurance companies started putting a 'recovery' clause on 3rd party claims arising at the 'Ring.

My mate had a trade policy and used to cover us on his policy. Never had an accident/claim on it, but they wrote last year to say they're no longer covering the 'Ring.

Now about 99.9% of insurers will not cover a UK driver you at the 'Ring (and the 0.1% will only do it for existing, well-known customers). So if you have an accident on your own you've got to pay the bill for your car & the armco. If you involve someone else in your accident then you've got your own car & armco to pay for, plus a big bill from the insurer who will pay out to the 3rd party, but will try to recover the costs from you (as per the policy T&Cs).

You can mitigate it somewhat by either renting a car from one of the many 'Ring rental outfits (http://www.rent4ring.de, etc., not Hertz/Avis/etc. as they will know and charge you accordingly), or by driving well within your limits. However, there's nothing you can do about some Swiss/Italian/Dutch kamikaze pilot taking you out.
 
Shall be at Anglesey on 19th of this month. Will try to get report with pics/videos up not long after. Will however be in my E36 M3, if i can get the steering rack replaced by then, not the Z4 MC as i simply cannot afford to crash that one!
 
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79708

Posted as above in the e85 section.. Probably in the wrong place !
 
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