This is just wrong

rabman5

Senior member
 Orchard Lake, MI
Chrysler gives bonuses, asks for bailout
Posted Nov 14 2008, 12:52 PM by Kim Peterson msn.com/money

Chrysler is asking the government for a bailout. It's laying off employees and cutting salaries. It's a company in trouble.

Oh yeah, it's also paying $30 million in bonuses to dozens of top executives.

That's the end result of a poorly-timed plan to keep Chrysler together as it was being sold. The company didn't want top executives to leave during the transition, so it promised big money for people who stuck around. Now, Chrysler is asking the government for billions of dollars in aid while it writes million-dollar bonus checks out to A-list employees. How's that for awkward?

In Chrysler's defense, this bonus plan was created in April of 2007. The company had no idea that its industry was headed for collapse, or that the executives it was desperate to keep might have a hard time finding employment at a Jiffy Lube at this point.

The bonuses are going to be another sticking point in Chrysler's request for government aid. The industry is asking for $25 billion in low-cost government loans. Chrysler is a private company, and may be asked to hand over a lot of information about its finances and how it handles its money. That includes information on those controversial bonuses.

Bonuses are under fire at other carmakers. Ford has cut some merit raises and bonuses for next year. The company is quickly running out of money, and is slashing its spending.

Executives from Chrysler, Ford and GM are headed to Congress next week to make their case for $25 billion in aid. The bonus numbers will quickly become a central point of the conversation, and deservedly so.

As a private company, Chrysler can do whatever it wants when it comes to compensating its executives. But a private company asking for a government bailout cannot. Better brush up on those resumes, boys, because the good times are coming to an end.
 
Not to mention that this is, what, the THIRD bailout for Chrysler? Rather than just executive salaries, however, the influence of the UAW should also be investigated. At one point, several years ago, it was calculated that union compensation just for retirees added over $1400 PER CAR.

Isn't it interesting that the auto plants that are not on the verge of bankruptcy are the non-union ones of BMW, M-B, Toyota?
 
I do, however, agree that bailout money should NOT be used for executive "golden parachutes" as they obviously did NOT do their jobs. Salary for them as well as workers, yes. But don't ask for your bonus until you have your company show a profit commensurate with that bonus.
 
I'm curious as to what Wonderwoman Pelosi agreed to give away when she had a meeting with the Auto bosses last week. This bonus crap has got to stop somewhere. The retards (aka lawyers) have got their teeth sunk real deep in these contracts as well. Gawd, they should be the first to go into the pit with the lions.
 
We already bailed out Chrysler once, and here they are back again. They, like other automakers suffer from stupidity, not seeing the future and salaries that are off the charts. Let them ALL go bankrupt, perhaps with reorganization they can get it right the second, or third time around and we, as tax payers do NOT have to support the entire economy.

Just my .02.
 
The UK car industry died over the last 20 years from union controlled factories producing unreliable shite, poorly designed and poorly assembled, that nobody wanted at over inflated prices in a global market where quality, consurmer choice, brand and price became king.

Are Ford and Chrysler and the rest of the US car manufacturers really any different.

I see no reason why they will be trading in 10 years.
 
jokuhl said:
We already bailed out Chrysler once, and here they are back again. They, like other automakers suffer from stupidity, not seeing the future and salaries that are off the charts. Let them ALL go bankrupt, perhaps with reorganization they can get it right the second, or third time around and we, as tax payers do NOT have to support the entire economy.

Just my .02.

:thumbsup:
 
Smokin said:
Isn't it interesting that the auto plants that are not on the verge of bankruptcy are the non-union ones of BMW, M-B, Toyota?

Really? European companies running with non-unioinized blue collar factory employees. I would have thought that europeans would have heavy unions, them of the heavy socialist inclination. :|
 
cj10jeeper said:
The UK car industry died over the last 20 years from union controlled factories producing unreliable shite, poorly designed and poorly assembled, that nobody wanted at over inflated prices in a global market where quality, consurmer choice, brand and price became king.

Are Ford and Chrysler and the rest of the US car manufacturers really any different.

I see no reason why they will be trading in 10 years.

At one time, the UK made good cars. By the late 60s, they had stopped improving and relied upon the same old technology; a fatal mistake. Who knows why they didn't try to stay up to date and change when things started to go south.

At one time, The US made good cars. By the late 70s, they had stopped caring about quality or style and started losing gound to the Japanese imports that couldn't get a toe hold earlier; a fatal mistake. Who knows why they didn't correct their problems when they saw they were losing market share.

The problems were obvious, yet corrections never made. The one thing that never suffered was the bonuses of the officers. Detroit does not deserve a bailout by the taxpayers of this nation; let the officers of the past 30 years reinvest their bonuses to keep their companies afloat. Yeah, like they are going to throw their money on sinking ships. Buh-bye.
 
The UAW penalty on all US Automakers is approx. $2800.00 per car.

That means that it costs the US Automaker $2800 MORE to manufacture a car than non UAW plants, here in the US.
 
Shipkiller said:
The UAW penalty on all US Automakers is approx. $2800.00 per car.

That means that it costs the US Automaker $2800 MORE to manufacture a car than non UAW plants, here in the US.
So are we suggesting the killoff of pensions and medical insurance for all the folks who busted their ass building cars in our plants over the past 40 years? That's where the money is going - UAW or no UAW. Not directed at anyone here personaly; but this is not the real issue here...
 
No, that is not what I was saying. Just showing one thing that is wrong with the US auto industry.

But for the big three to survive, they WILL have to fix this. The UAW will have to swallow BIG concessions or they will have NO money for their rank and file... That's rather simple but that's the jist of it...


They will have to be bailed out by the government or the bread lines will start. It is estimated that if GM goes under, 80,000 will be out of work....... Holy crap... Not just from GM proper, but all of the parts suppliers will have to lay off people..

If I had my druthers, I would keep GM and Ford and let Chrysler go......
 
Caddyshk said:
Shipkiller said:
The UAW penalty on all US Automakers is approx. $2800.00 per car.

That means that it costs the US Automaker $2800 MORE to manufacture a car than non UAW plants, here in the US.
So are we suggesting the killoff of pensions and medical insurance for all the folks who busted their ass building cars in our plants over the past 40 years? That's where the money is going - UAW or no UAW. Not directed at anyone here personaly; but this is not the real issue here...
I wonder if the UAW is still needed for the rank and file. IMHO, there are now laws that protect workers from the management behaviors the UAW was formed guard against. Now, the UAW is a business in itself. The organization has financial resources you wouldn't believe. I personally know people working in plants who make well into six figure salaries doing very little. They brag about it. Believe me, there is plenty of money to pay a fair pension and fair wages for the jobs performed. The system needs to be revised if they hope to save the industry.

But the unions aren't the biggest problems. Although it seems totally unthinkable, neither is executive compensation. $30 million isn't much compared to the billions being lost each fiscal quarter by all three US automakers. Maybe they should scale back and only make cars that are already sold or dealer ordered? Isn't this a problem? Expending resources building more and more cars while thousands remain unsold! This may make the companies viable, but what happens to the thousands who get laid off? That couldn't be good for the economy. I don't have any answers, but it is a mess here in Michigan and getting worse.

It's hard to feel sorry for them since so many are importing cars from elsewhere, slapping a badge on it and selling it as an american car. At least my Z4 was built in USA. My Ford is built on a Mazda platform and built overseas (Canada) :lol:
 
Many years ago Lee Iacoca showed up in Washington asking for a loan. He came with a business plan in hand for how he would use it to make the company profitable and the taxpayers would get their money back. He made the plan work and we got back more than we loaned him.

Now we have the "Big 3" knocking on the doors of Congress asking for a handout with no business plan in hand at beyond "gee whiz we need money or your economy will go in the tank". I really don't see a basis for comparison between the two situations here at all. For the record I have never owned a Chrysler Corp. product and likely never will but it is hard not to admire the business sense Iacoca showed back then and equally hard to not notice how impoverished the present request is in comparison.

I don't like seeing jobs go down the drain but giving a handout to an industry that has no realistic plan on the table to regain profitability seems even worse.
 
One difference between then and now (subject of this thread).. Lee Iacoca asked for the government money, then cut his salary to $1.00...
 
Picking one means we the people and government will own it. Can they get it right this time and design cars that will take us into the future and not bankrupt us? The BIG HOPS is yes,they will get it right this time. Anyone rushing to buy any stocks in the auto industry?
 
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