This Can't be Right?!

[Snoop D]

I have noticed this a few years ago into my ownership, however I can't remember it being this bad.

The driver's front offside wheel arch-liner is literally touching and resting against the tyre, whereas the passenger's side is not (it's close but not touching anywhere). I replaced my old worn out and broken arch liners with new ones and now don't fancy messing these ones up as they aren't cheap!. I have attached pictures below...

Driver's side:






Arch gap on driver's side:





Passenger's side:






Arch gap on passenger's side:



I'm thinking it may be an alignment issue, as a few years back I went to a track and ended up spinning out onto the grass, luckily no serious damage, just the front bumper had cracked off and arch-liners broken. Could this have knocked the alignment out on the front suspension? I did however replace both front lollipop bushes quite a time after that incident.

Other info:

Car has been lowered on blue H&R springs (I don't know by how much, but the car is very low)
19" wheels with 235/35/19
Only lollipop bushes were replaced, not the ball joints or control arm - however this is on the to-do list...

Anyone experienced this before and know how to rectify this?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[buzyg]

:? So your car is lowered and on 19inch wheels. I expect it has been like that ever since it was lowered. Pop some longer springs in if you need / want move clearance.

 

[skelters]

19"wheels and lowered?

Are there any holes in the liners where it's been rubbing?

 

[Snoop D]

:? So your car is lowered and on 19inch wheels. I expect it has been like that ever since it was lowered. Pop some longer springs in if you need / want move clearance.

Hi buzyg, thanks for the response. Since the car was lowered the arch-liners have been really close to the tyres yes, but they have never touched/rested flat against the tyre like the driver's side in my pic.

It still brings into question as to why this is the case on only the driver's front side? I can quite easily fit my foot in between the sideskirt and back of the tyre on the drivers side but it's tight on the passengers side. This is obviously an indication that the front drivers wheel has moved too far forward?

Thanks

 

[Snoop D]

19"wheels and lowered?

Are there any holes in the liners where it's been rubbing?

The liners in the pictures are the new ones I have just fitted. The old ones were all battered up, broken, cracked and had rub marks on it...

 

[kic_Mike]

Not being funny - but are you parked on uneven ground? The arch gap is considerably different between each side so could just be as simple as that - or you want to take a look at your suspension and check its all set up right.

 

[skelters]

If the old ones were running the new ones will probably be the same.

Maybe raise the suspension a bit or you'll have to live with the liners and the rubbing.

Get the suspension checked as you've said you had an off triad experience at the track.

After that get a Hunter Alignment done if the suspension is ok although I'd be looking to raise the suspension a bit to stop the rubbing.

 

[buzyg]

:? So your car is lowered and on 19inch wheels. I expect it has been like that ever since it was lowered. Pop some longer springs in if you need / want move clearance.

Hi buzyg, thanks for the response. Since the car was lowered the arch-liners have been really close to the tyres yes, but they have never touched/rested flat against the tyre like the driver's side in my pic.

It still brings into question as to why this is the case on only the driver's front side? I can quite easily fit my foot in between the sideskirt and back of the tyre on the drivers side but it's tight on the passengers side. This is obviously an indication that the front drivers wheel has moved too far forward?

Thanks

Do you have any pictures that show the whole wheel arch square on. No clue from the pics shown, what the relationship is between the wheels the wheel liners and the wheel arch. Just shows the wheel arch liner touching the wheel. That could simply be because it is not fitted correctly. I'm not suggesting it is, mearly saying it's hard to tell from the pictures.

 

[Snoop D]

Not being funny - but are you parked on uneven ground? The arch gap is considerably different between each side so could just be as simple as that - or you want to take a look at your suspension and check its all set up right.

That is actually a good question I was thinking about myself! :?

Both the front wheels are resting on bricks as I previously had both fronts off to change the liners (plus I need to drive onto bricks at the front anyway to raise the height of the car so I can fit my low profile jack under the jacking point!). My driveway is all stone, so yeah it could be uneven either side too.

Thanks!

 

[kic_Mike]

That is actually a good question I was thinking about myself! :?

Both the front wheels are resting on bricks as I previously had both fronts off to change the liners (plus I need to drive onto bricks at the front anyway to raise the height of the car so I can fit my low profile jack under the jacking point!). My driveway is all stone, so yeah it could be uneven either side too.

Thanks!

Hopefully it's as simple as that - I noticed when I was parked even on my parent's monoblocked drive with one wheel slightly on the kerb that the height was uneven either side purely because of that - moved it and it was fine all round.

 

[Snoop D]

Hopefully it's as simple as that - I noticed when I was parked even on my parent's monoblocked drive with one wheel slightly on the kerb that the height was uneven either side purely because of that - moved it and it was fine all round.

OK, just moved the car off the bricks and took it for a drive. Wheels are still scrubbing against the front liners
Even worse on full lock either side!

 

[NSM]

Have you checked your shock absorbers? When I bought my car it was on H&R springs and the car sat so low and uneven that I decided to increase the ride height. When stripped the shocks were shot with no damping effect so essentially the car suspension was just bouncing and crashing along. Handling was awful. Good luck.

 

[tomrdy]

Whats the condition of the lollipops on the side that is rubbing the guard?

Perhaps the bush is damaged/worn and you're effectively (when sat) having a lot of caster which moves the wheel physically forward?

 

[ph001]

I think you need to get the car up on some proper 4 post ramps and have a good look from underneath to see if the wishbones are bent etc. Lots of us run 19’s with lowered suspension with no or minimal rubbing.

 

[Snoop D]

Have you checked your shock absorbers? When I bought my car it was on H&R springs and the car sat so low and uneven that I decided to increase the ride height. When stripped the shocks were shot with no damping effect so essentially the car suspension was just bouncing and crashing along. Handling was awful. Good luck.

Hi, thanks for your message. I took it to my mechanic and he put it up on his 4 post ramp to quickly inspect the front suspension underneath. He gave it a very quick look over (about 2 mins) and noticed that the cup/seat on the driver's side shock absorber was bent (he described it as "that's bent like a dogs dick!" :lol: )

He was 100% certain that was the problem. However, when I looked at it, it looked the same as the other side and I can't see why this would have such a negative effect on the caster/alignment? They do need replacing though as I noticed they have lost their damping properties (I could literally push the wheels up and down by hand, while the car was jacked up, and there would be very minimal resistance when the strut was under compression/tension.) The car does sit mega low at the front and suspension does look very soft when moving. I also inspected the top mounts from the engine bay. The central black rubber bits sit at different orientations.
It also does handle awfully poor, very "crashy" and "wandery" when going over uneven road surfaces. You always have to have both hands on steering wheel - doesn't really pull to one side but just feels rubbish and crashy over any small uneven surface. It does have trouble self-centering and feels "notchy" or "sticky". Also requires a bit of effort to turn in but not to the point where it's too difficult (very mild).
What springs did you end up going with and whats a good drop that would produce no/minimal rubbing issues on 19's like most others on this forum?

When the lollipop bushes (Lemforder) were replaced (incorrectly), they were tightened down (without the correct torque setting as I didn't have torque wrench, so tightened them pretty snug with a ratchet) with the wheel hanging freely, instead of jacking the wheel up to relieve the stress. I believe this can prematurely wear the bushes out, but can it shove the wheel so far forward like mines?

I will be going to a proper alignment specialist with Hunter machine and get him to look over it for me and try and figure out a good starting point...

Thanks

 

[synthedup]

19"wheels and lowered?

Are there any holes in the liners where it's been rubbing?

The liners in the pictures are the new ones I have just fitted. The old ones were all battered up, broken, cracked and had rub marks on it...

Hi, you do realise that one arch liners in the photo have been chopped up pretty bad and are not like new? Also the arch linger is resting against the tyre as the front number is off and it’s not currently clipped to it. Once the number is on it won’t sit on the tyre.

I imaging you won’t get much rubbing with these liners as they have been chopped up so much that where they normally run has already been removed.


If you do her much rubbing it will eventually stop as when you drive it will wear through the co tact point. I believe from memory when I ran the same set up it rubbed on the corner of the number bracket for a short period until it run away.

 

[synthedup]

I think your issue maybe running the 235 tyre up front, you’d be better with a 225

 

[MrPT]

Sounds like progress. And you've learnt something about dogs...

When the lollipop bushes (Lemforder) were replaced (incorrectly), they were tightened down (without the correct torque setting as I didn't have torque wrench, so tightened them pretty snug with a ratchet) with the wheel hanging freely, instead of jacking the wheel up to relieve the stress. I believe this can prematurely wear the bushes out, but can it shove the wheel so far forward like mines?

The lack of bush preload on its own wouldn't, but if the rear control arm pin isn't seated properly into the bush it would push the wheel forward, yeah. Unlikely to be an issue though as just driving the car normally will exert a lot of force on the control arm and help it remain properly seated.

If you didn't preload the bushes properly you may have damaged them, but if they'd torn completely then the control arm would more likely be sitting too far backwards (i.e. reducing castor) than forwards. Either way, get them checked out. At best they'll be adding a lot of spring rate to the front of the car, which in combination with the knackered dampers is going to feel horrendous.

Eibach Pro springs are popular. 30mm drop from standard or 15-20mm from m-sport. Might result in a little bit of rubbing (depending on the tyre and rim width), but nothing like what you're experiencing now.

 

[Snoop D]

Hi, you do realise that one arch liners in the photo have been chopped up pretty bad and are not like new? Also the arch linger is resting against the tyre as the front number is off and it’s not currently clipped to it. Once the number is on it won’t sit on the tyre.

Hi, the arch liner shown in the photo, which you say is chopped up pretty bad and not like new, is the arch liners you were selling and stated they were in good condition and "cut/modified at the points where they were rubbing and couldn't be noticed" :roll:
The photo was taken literally after installing your liners. The arch liner is resting against the tyre because the driver's side wheel is pushed too far forwards, not because the bumper is off - this has already been stated in previous posts. There is literally no movement of the liner away from the tyre, and when the bumper is attached, the top corner where is attaches onto the wing clip, that part of the bumper then also rests on the tyre!

I imaging you won’t get much rubbing with these liners as they have been chopped up so much that where they normally run has already been removed.

If you do her much rubbing it will eventually stop as when you drive it will wear through the co tact point. I believe from memory when I ran the same set up it rubbed on the corner of the number bracket for a short period until it run away.

Really?! Take a look at them now - they are still continuing to rub and melt!

 

[Snoop D]

I managed to have a look underneath this weekend. I'll just post all the pictures I ended up taking.

I couldn't see anything abnormally wrong/bent. If anyone notices anything that couldn't be picked up by my blind eyes, please let me know. Yes the car has quite a lot of surface rust as it has not been in use for a few years.

Here goes:

(Driver's O/S - Side on which the wheel sits too far forwards)