Thinking of a new Camera

[Shooter]

Concerning entry-level DSLR, Nikon is to be avoided, except if you already have some goos Nikon lenses to use.
Nikon entry-level DSLR have too many (stupid...) limitations to be reaaly interesting.
Look either for a new Canon EOS 1000D or a used 400D/450D. Pentax can also be a good choice in entry-level.
If you have the budget, though, the Nikon D90 is a very good DSLR (unlike D40/D60...).

 

[rabman5]

I am using a Nikon D80 currently, but now i want to upgrade to a full frame camera with faster frames per second. I'm looking at the D700 or a second hand D3.

As far as lenses, I love my Nikkor 18-200mm VR f/3.5 lens. Very versatile and easy to use.

 

[Mr Whippy]

I am using a Nikon D80 currently, but now i want to upgrade to a full frame camera with faster frames per second. I'm looking at the D700 or a second hand D3.

As far as lenses, I love my Nikkor 18-200mm VR f/3.5 lens. Very versatile and easy to use.

I have a D70S and have that lens as well, a very nice all rounder lens.

I'm not sure what other Nikon lenses I'd need to fill the gap it left, and that is kinda half my problem with the Nikon stuff. There is good bottom end stuff, and good top-end stuff, but very little in the mid-range. The 18-200VR is one of those mid-range greats... along with the F1.8 50mm...

I'm just feeling the draw of Canon, there seems to be more good lenses in the mid-range segment to choose from, and the 30D>> family is that step-up between the D70>> family, but not quite as far in cost/size/weight etc as the D200>> family.


Hence me recommending the 30D. My sister in law does weddings and reportage style portraits etc, and uses a 20D and I find it fantastic, and my workmate who often brought his 30D camera in to work was great to use too... Nikon offer nothing in that segment, but it's the segment probably where 90% of people will get to and then be happy.
Ie, waterproof body, two command wheels for fstop and shutter speed, iso adjust button on body, white balance colour temp settings... all nice features, but then stick it in auto and it does easy stuff just as well as the cheap ones


Tough choice

Dave

 

[WLH]

rabman5, well I just made the move today to a Nikon D300s. I did gave serious consideration to the D700 and IMO I think except for action shots it is better in many ways than the D3 for a lot less money. It's got almost all the same features and more and a lot smaller. Does lack the 4 X 5 framing guides which is favored by the pros. Anyway I decided that the D700 was more camera than I needed except I was drawn to the full size sensor. Anyway moving up from my D40X I now have a bunch of older Nikon lens that will work with the D300.

So I will now spend the next month or so reading the 404 page manual.... aper: Hell, the quick guide is 60 pages....

 

[cj10jeeper]

Guys - the advice has been really helpful and I'm getting to grips with this subject:

I'm edged towards Canon due to the references to it and the Nikon 'lens' issues.

A few more questions:
Is the 450D worth the money over the 1000D given I'm and entry level guy.

What about the US versions of the 450D (Rebel XSi) that seem to be in the UK market at a lot less but the same camera? I presume they are warrantied with global Canon cover? Are they the same?

I'm not adverse to secondhand items, but cameras worry me as one of those items that could be delicate, abused by the previous owner, etc. Are the latest Gen Canons pretty robust bits of kit? I migh be able to pick up an as new 450D for low £300's on Ebay Vs nearer £450 mainstream retail, which will leave me budget for all the accessories that I don't even yet know I need...

Thanks again to all.

 

[sp3ctre]

I'm not adverse to secondhand items, but cameras worry me as one of those items that could be delicate, abused by the previous owner, etc. Are the latest Gen Canons pretty robust bits of kit?

Have a look in the classified forums on www.avforums.com

Stuff sold on there is usually in very good condition and sold by enthusiasts. People generally ask a fair price for stuff and you get the occasional bargain too.

 

[pvr]

I did a "proper" camera course of a year (evening study) when I was a student (few years back ...). That included dark room development etc. From that, there are a couple of functional things I want, translated in modern terms - they are:

- Spot metering.
- Diaphram preference settings to control the depth of field element.
- Speed preference settings to capture moving objects etc.
- Manual focus.

As long as you have those, you can do and achieve anything. The quality is really defined by the lens you use, the higher the light sensitivity (F1.5 or so), the more you can do in less optimal light conditions. However, that type would carry a huge premium, so 3.0 - 4.0 is about as good as you can get without going in silly money. However, on eBay you can pick up some excellent single focus lenses for good money. The high class quality of those is excellent if you go out to make a specific picture of your car and have the environment under control (i.e. setting, time etc).

 

[PawnSacrifice]

Don't know about the 1000D but I went from digital compact to the 400D and it's been great... I started just taking loads of pics at different settings and then seeing what worked - the beauty of a large memory card! I think it's easy enough to start you off and room "to grow".

As for robustness... I bought mine second hand from a friend so I know it had been cared for, but so far mine has been with me on a surf trip, mountain biking (tame stuff, nothing like Ally!) and to Italy been knocked about a little but with no problems - if it's in a good good, snug case it should be fine. On the downside, I guess, the externals are quite robust so might not show if it has been dealt with roughly, jolting the internals - but I really don't know what that would do to be honest.

You may want to consider a dealer for secondhand... may give you some comeback if there are any problems? A lot of the high street guys offer trade in schemes, logic there would be it's someone who has enjoyed it and wants to trade up.

The more experience photographers here will be able to tell you more technically, but that's a newbies experience! So far I have just added some lens covers and a Sigma zoom lens. Maybe another for closer work.

Now this isn't the greatest picture ever (technically probably very average!), but this is a shot outside at night from around 150m (with the Sigma lens on) using the 400D - no flash (not allowed), just playing with the shutter and ISO. This is here to show what one can do with little or no experience with the something inferior to the 450D! A sales pitch... I get very enthusiastic if I'm impressed with something. Just think what it could do in the right hands!


The blurriness is a combination of no tripod and slow shutter speed.

 

[pvr]

As a general rule - the bigger the zoom range, the worse the quality. As with everything, there is no one-fits-all product, and a big range will have big picture defects, especially at its extremes.

 

[cj10jeeper]

I did a "proper" camera course of a year (evening study) when I was a student (few years back ...). That included dark room development etc. From that, there are a couple of functional things I want, translated in modern terms - they are:

- Spot metering.
- Diaphram preference settings to control the depth of field element.
- Speed preference settings to capture moving objects etc.
- Manual focus.

As long as you have those, you can do and achieve anything. The quality is really defined by the lens you use, the higher the light sensitivity (F1.5 or so), the more you can do in less optimal light conditions. However, that type would carry a huge premium, so 3.0 - 4.0 is about as good as you can get without going in silly money. However, on eBay you can pick up some excellent single focus lenses for good money. The high class quality of those is excellent if you go out to make a specific picture of your car and have the environment under control (i.e. setting, time etc).

Now you've gone all technical on me...

 

[pvr]

Ok ... if you want focused object and fuzzy background - change the diaphram to a large opening (low number). Think of your eyes - when you open them wide, you can not see in the distance. Same with a lens, so if you want your car in the foreground in focus, but the trees in the background out of focus - change the diaphram. On auto cameras, you can not do that so that is why you want to be able to change that preference.

Same issue with speed - blink fast and you can see a fast moving object in focus, blink slow, it moves. So if you want a fast driving car in focus, change the shutterspeed to say 1/500 or 1/1000 of a second. That is when the quality lens comes in - to be able to do that, the apperture needs to be large enough to still let enough light in. So a 4.5 can not handle that, but a 2.5 or less might. That is what will cost you ...

 

[lacroupade]

Ok ... if you want focused object and fuzzy background - change the diaphram to a large opening (low number). Think of your eyes - when you open them wide, you can not see in the distance. Same with a lens, so if you want your car in the foreground in focus, but the trees in the background out of focus - change the diaphram. On auto cameras, you can not do that so that is why you want to be able to change that preference.

Same issue with speed - blink fast and you can see a fast moving object in focus, blink slow, it moves. So if you want a fast driving car in focus, change the shutterspeed to say 1/500 or 1/1000 of a second. That is when the quality lens comes in - to be able to do that, the apperture needs to be large enough to still let enough light in. So a 4.5 can not handle that, but a 2.5 or less might. That is what will cost you ...

ISO?..... oke: oke: go on, tell 'em!

and PRAWN what on earth is that photo of?

 

[PawnSacrifice]

....
and PAWN what on earth is that photo of?

Tosca.... at the amphitheatre in Verona - had an evening to kill and thought "why not?" Never been. I'd been expecting a few fat Italians standing in the middle of the stage whining in Italian. It was actually really impressive - that sword lowered at the start of the third act. I really didn't have the first clue what was going on though.

Can't believe that picture came out at all... frickin' brilliant camera! Although I'm sure you boys could have done more with it. :wink:

 

[pvr]

Ok ... if you want focused object and fuzzy background - change the diaphram to a large opening (low number). Think of your eyes - when you open them wide, you can not see in the distance. Same with a lens, so if you want your car in the foreground in focus, but the trees in the background out of focus - change the diaphram. On auto cameras, you can not do that so that is why you want to be able to change that preference.

Same issue with speed - blink fast and you can see a fast moving object in focus, blink slow, it moves. So if you want a fast driving car in focus, change the shutterspeed to say 1/500 or 1/1000 of a second. That is when the quality lens comes in - to be able to do that, the apperture needs to be large enough to still let enough light in. So a 4.5 can not handle that, but a 2.5 or less might. That is what will cost you ...

ISO?..... oke: oke: go on, tell 'em!

and PRAWN what on earth is that photo of?

Next lesson Don't want to confuse him now ...

 

[cj10jeeper]

That's brilliant pvr - I understand it a little now

Now you say you learnt this as a student so I assume this was on a 'Kodak No. 2 Brownie box camera' Would this be applicable to a DSLR? oke:

OK getting my coat..

 

[lacroupade]

....
and PAWN what on earth is that photo of?

Tosca.... at the amphitheatre in Verona - had an evening to kill and thought "why not?" Never been. I'd been expecting a few fat Italians standing in the middle of the stage whining in Italian. It was actually really impressive - that sword lowered at the start of the third act. I really didn't have the first clue what was going on though.

Can't believe that picture came out at all... frickin' brilliant camera! Although I'm sure you boys could have done more with it. :wink:

Thank god for that, I thought you'd had an audience with the pope or something! Nothing wrong with a bit of opera, especially in the places it was born. Nice pic for a long distance, low-light handheld!

@CJ - dont be put off. Its really dead simple. So long as you have an automatic 'best option' mode on a half-decent camera to begin with then you'll be OK. If you want to get more creative, then as PVR says, having aperture priority, shutter speed priority and manual focus gives you everything else you want.

Aperture Priority just lets you decide how much you want in focus, ranging from just the object through to the whole foreground and background.
Shutter Speed Priority just lets you decide how much stop-motion you want.
Manual focus isn't absolutely necessary but it can help to overcome some of the shortcomings of autofocus, mainly (i) the delay (can be a few milliseconds; enough to spoil your composition in an action shot) or (ii) mis-reading (AF can be crap in the wrong lighting conditions, or where water/glass are involved, or when you want a very specific point in focus thats off centre).

When all else fails and you want a photo in very low light conditions, adjustable ISO (equivalent of film speed) can save you....but the higher the ISO the more 'grainy' the photo.

You must be bored to death with all this by now, so I'd just go out and buy something, but get yourself a good photography book and learn about basic stuff like the rule of thirds, filling the frame with your subject, use of lighting etc etc.. The good news is that, with CCDs (the bit that takes the pic) getting better all the time, there are some great bargains to be had. The Nikon D70S that I recommended was a £700 camera when it first came out a couple of years ago - its 6MP, while the latest Nikon is 12MP I think...but the difference would only really show in very large blowups - at A4 they are very much the same, and the D70S has all the functions you need for around £250 s/h.

I'd compare reviews with the equivalent Canon and just go buy one or the other and get on with taking pictures.....you will be glad you did.

 

[pvr]

Yes, that is an important point - don't get blinded by a Mega pixel value as that does not define the picture quality.

 

[srhutch]

I did a "proper" camera course of a year (evening study) when I was a student (few years back ...). That included dark room development etc. From that, there are a couple of functional things I want, translated in modern terms - they are:

- Spot metering.
- Diaphram preference settings to control the depth of field element.
- Speed preference settings to capture moving objects etc.
- Manual focus.

As long as you have those, you can do and achieve anything. The quality is really defined by the lens you use, the higher the light sensitivity (F1.5 or so), the more you can do in less optimal light conditions. However, that type would carry a huge premium, so 3.0 - 4.0 is about as good as you can get without going in silly money. However, on eBay you can pick up some excellent single focus lenses for good money. The high class quality of those is excellent if you go out to make a specific picture of your car and have the environment under control (i.e. setting, time etc).

PVR what's this diaphram you keep refering to, isnt that what ladies use for birth control. oke:

Wouldnt apperture be a better term in these modern times?

 

[pvr]

I did say the course was a while back

 

[Elliot]

I was into my cameras but recently havent really used them in anger, i like doing the track photography and air shows etc, My way of thinking on digi SLRs.....buy good quality lenses, ive a couple of L spec canon lenses, my fav being the 300mm L IS combined with an x1.4 canon extender on a canon 20d

these were taken with a 20d with 300LiS lens with x1.4 extender = 672mm handheld
take a peek....i surprised myself

http://www.pbase.com/elliot_d/riat_fairford_2006

thoughts....maybe i should sell the D/slr kit :|