I've had Zed's for 7 years now and hardly a squeak or rattle. There's been the odd little niggle - like the seat cover on the M but that's all really on the interior. I don't think the build quality is that bad on the E85/6. I'm not saying it couldn't be better but in my experience a Citroen is no comparison. Wait until you have someone crash into you and then you'll see how good it is. Sure they'll tell you it's got 5 NCAP stars but that means s*** frankly. I had a Merc before my Zed's and they are no worse than that was. Every single friend I know who has/had an Audi has had a littany of mechanical/electrical gremlins.
Things currently broken on my car that BMW won't fix
- Thread starter Aliv6
- Start date
The Z4 was a slight hitch in BMWs build quality most people will admit that. Had BMWs in the family for 20 years and they have slowly gotten worse. But at the same time they are built with product obsolescence, they want you to buy another one 3 years later.. cars feeling tired is a reason to trade in. Small amount of money from a garages point of a devoted user and they're back to they're best. My E90 3 was much better than my Z4M but who cares about rattles! No wonder there are rattles with that engine and exhaust blaring away!
I've had my moneys worth from BMW extended warranty's over the past few years, both on the Z4M and M3 before that. If something serious has gone wrong then I've always been paid out, sometimes after a bit of pursuasion, but rectified nevertheless.
I'll be honest Ali, I think it's par for the course on any extended car warranty not to pay out on minor trim faults/breakages which yours are in my opinion. Also if they committed to paying out to rectify rattles and creaks on extended warranty then they would soon be out of business. I haven't found that to have changed much since Mondial took over the BMW extended warranty although the dealerships appear to have to be much more thorough in giving details of the faults and eliminating misuse as a cause.
As for Audi having better build quality and reliability, not in my experience. We just got rid of my wife's A3 after 3 years and spent a lot of money on that car repairing faults. I also spent a lot of time eliminating rattles and creaks inside the cabin, the worst of which turned out to be caused by a defective engine mount. Audi reliability is a bit of a myth for me.
All that said I totally agree that Z4 build quality is not what it should be.
I'll be honest Ali, I think it's par for the course on any extended car warranty not to pay out on minor trim faults/breakages which yours are in my opinion. Also if they committed to paying out to rectify rattles and creaks on extended warranty then they would soon be out of business. I haven't found that to have changed much since Mondial took over the BMW extended warranty although the dealerships appear to have to be much more thorough in giving details of the faults and eliminating misuse as a cause.
As for Audi having better build quality and reliability, not in my experience. We just got rid of my wife's A3 after 3 years and spent a lot of money on that car repairing faults. I also spent a lot of time eliminating rattles and creaks inside the cabin, the worst of which turned out to be caused by a defective engine mount. Audi reliability is a bit of a myth for me.
All that said I totally agree that Z4 build quality is not what it should be.
a340driver
Member
Warranty is always a gamble. I wouldn't bother normally but as it's my first M car I went for it. Not sure I'm getting £600 of peace of mind though and (touch wood) the car is faultless at the mo'. Nothing wrong with Audi or VAG generally. The idea that BMW are built to a different engineering standard is frankly daft and there's nothing special about Beemers in that respect. I still love them though!
ben g said:
Is a Lamborghini a VW (AUDI) related product? Just asking... ;-)
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Yes they are very disappointing on the inside... not very supercarish. Raided the audi parts bin.
Lambo Interior by tom_scott88, on Flickr
Lambo Interior by tom_scott88, on Flickr
RidgyDidge said:
Why do you think the R8 is the only decent drivers car they make? Perhaps it's because it's a re-clothed and de-tuned Gallardo (which is itself a 10-year old design now).
My point is simply that the quality of the interior materials in my A6 are better than those in my Z4. That's it.
For the record I traded an S4 Avant to get into the A6 only to be told subsequently by the AUDI sales manager that during the period the S4 was being prepped for resale the gearbox gave up (jammed in 3rd gear). The gearbox replacement would have cost me $12k!!!
I genuinely had no idea the gearbox was about to sh1t itself, and if I had I would never have been able to push hard to negotiate the deal I did. A real example of 'ignorance is bliss' ;-)
Needless to say that already good deal suddenly looked so much better when I heard that news. Nice to get an unexpected win too.
The dealer was pretty philosophical and still keeps in touch even now.
I do accept that generally a performance BMW model will always trounce the equivalent AUDI. That's why I have the Z4MC
But the A6 Avant does make for a very fine family wagon IMO.
Also worth mentioning that prestige euro wagons are relatively rare here, so there are usually very few to choose from. For example there is currently fewer than 10 4F series A6 Avants for sale in the whole of Australia...!
As for BUILD quality...I might argue that Honda might beat both BMW and AUDI. There, now I've done it... ;-)
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For the record I traded an S4 Avant to get into the A6 only to be told subsequently by the AUDI sales manager that during the period the S4 was being prepped for resale the gearbox gave up (jammed in 3rd gear). The gearbox replacement would have cost me $12k!!!
I genuinely had no idea the gearbox was about to sh1t itself, and if I had I would never have been able to push hard to negotiate the deal I did. A real example of 'ignorance is bliss' ;-)
Needless to say that already good deal suddenly looked so much better when I heard that news. Nice to get an unexpected win too.
The dealer was pretty philosophical and still keeps in touch even now.
I do accept that generally a performance BMW model will always trounce the equivalent AUDI. That's why I have the Z4MC
But the A6 Avant does make for a very fine family wagon IMO.
Also worth mentioning that prestige euro wagons are relatively rare here, so there are usually very few to choose from. For example there is currently fewer than 10 4F series A6 Avants for sale in the whole of Australia...!
As for BUILD quality...I might argue that Honda might beat both BMW and AUDI. There, now I've done it... ;-)
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Ridgy, I think you may be right about Honda.
I think Audi/BMW and Mercedes all take a slightly different view on the "premium" segment. They all need to get to the same target price for their equivalent model but they all divide the cake up slightly differently to meet their individual target demographics needs. For example BMW devote a bit more on engine and handling and less on interior with a more love/loathe exterior design philosophy (younger buyer), Audi the reverse (more spent on interiors to suit practical family man demographic with inevitable compromises on driver involvement, 'safer' exterior design philosophy) and Mercedes has traditionally pitched for the older buyer but seems to be trying to sit in the middle ground now between Audi and BMW positions.
In the 3-series/A4/C-Class sector these differences between the three become much less apparent because this is where the major volume sales are for all three. Nobody wants to "offend" a large portion of their target market and success with this sector is fundamental to strong financial performance for all three.
I think Audi/BMW and Mercedes all take a slightly different view on the "premium" segment. They all need to get to the same target price for their equivalent model but they all divide the cake up slightly differently to meet their individual target demographics needs. For example BMW devote a bit more on engine and handling and less on interior with a more love/loathe exterior design philosophy (younger buyer), Audi the reverse (more spent on interiors to suit practical family man demographic with inevitable compromises on driver involvement, 'safer' exterior design philosophy) and Mercedes has traditionally pitched for the older buyer but seems to be trying to sit in the middle ground now between Audi and BMW positions.
In the 3-series/A4/C-Class sector these differences between the three become much less apparent because this is where the major volume sales are for all three. Nobody wants to "offend" a large portion of their target market and success with this sector is fundamental to strong financial performance for all three.
Swiftly said:Couldn't have put it better myself, I think you are bang on the moneyoriginal guvnor said:
Agreed
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I'm a bit of a BMW fan since getting my first in 2009. We've temporarily got 4 BMW's in the household, a 2009 E90 that's about to go back to BMW, a 2007 Z4MC, the GF's 2008 120d Coupe and (wait for it) my newly acquired run around, a 2004 X3 3.0i auto (there, I said it). I also had a 1998 Z3MR last year.
Build quality opinions are often based on the bits you can see and hear that aren't right, not the rest of the car doing its job. After totally re-building the suspension and brakes of the 13 year old Z3MR I have to say I was pretty impressed with the quality of the components. Brake lines all intact, diff / driveshafts were solid, exhausts perfect, no bodywork rust, everything electrical working fine, etc. And everything comes apart and goes back together nicely on a BMW, compared to when I built my kit car and used Ford bits. Having said that, the reason for the rebuild was that the rear diff can tear the subframe on the Z3, mine was ok but I seam welded it anyway.
Interior wise, the E90 was the best quality but had creaky door seals and a rattly dash. The 120 is a cheaper interior, although it's still pretty well put together. My Z4 feels very tight and rattle free but it's only done 23k miles. The X3 has done 60k and looks dated, and it has the most rattles and creaks, although not too bad. So for me, I give a thumbs up to BMW quality, but I don't think it's any better than my recent VW's (better designed, not better put together).
Re warranty, I got the X3 from a main dealer last month as I wanted a warranty on an 8 year old car. Took it in after 2 weeks to have what I suspected was a loose wheel bearing tightened. They replaced both front discs & pads, and one caliper (coz it was sticking - yeah right!). Don't for one minute think that it was needed, but I got new brakes out of the warranty so I'm happy.
For me with the Z4MC, it's all about the driving experience and the noise. I love the steering on turn in, love the engine noise, the style and the single mindedness of the design. Fingers crossed nowt goes wrong, I dont have a warranty on the zed.
Build quality opinions are often based on the bits you can see and hear that aren't right, not the rest of the car doing its job. After totally re-building the suspension and brakes of the 13 year old Z3MR I have to say I was pretty impressed with the quality of the components. Brake lines all intact, diff / driveshafts were solid, exhausts perfect, no bodywork rust, everything electrical working fine, etc. And everything comes apart and goes back together nicely on a BMW, compared to when I built my kit car and used Ford bits. Having said that, the reason for the rebuild was that the rear diff can tear the subframe on the Z3, mine was ok but I seam welded it anyway.
Interior wise, the E90 was the best quality but had creaky door seals and a rattly dash. The 120 is a cheaper interior, although it's still pretty well put together. My Z4 feels very tight and rattle free but it's only done 23k miles. The X3 has done 60k and looks dated, and it has the most rattles and creaks, although not too bad. So for me, I give a thumbs up to BMW quality, but I don't think it's any better than my recent VW's (better designed, not better put together).
Re warranty, I got the X3 from a main dealer last month as I wanted a warranty on an 8 year old car. Took it in after 2 weeks to have what I suspected was a loose wheel bearing tightened. They replaced both front discs & pads, and one caliper (coz it was sticking - yeah right!). Don't for one minute think that it was needed, but I got new brakes out of the warranty so I'm happy.
For me with the Z4MC, it's all about the driving experience and the noise. I love the steering on turn in, love the engine noise, the style and the single mindedness of the design. Fingers crossed nowt goes wrong, I dont have a warranty on the zed.
As an update to this. My persistence paid off.
BMW footed the bill for fixing the rattle, £700 in labour, not 100% what they fixed, but it's gone!
BMW also covered the cost of the Sunglasses holder and Cup holder, but i paid an hours labour to fit both. Ho hum! Not a bad result imo!
It's certainly restored a little faith in the dealer network!
BMW footed the bill for fixing the rattle, £700 in labour, not 100% what they fixed, but it's gone!
BMW also covered the cost of the Sunglasses holder and Cup holder, but i paid an hours labour to fit both. Ho hum! Not a bad result imo!
It's certainly restored a little faith in the dealer network!
When it comes to warranty claims, BMW have an unbelievably wide definition of the term "trim"!Aliv6 said:
The driver's side door mirror housing on my M5 (which is vibrating), the glovebox lock on my Z4M (which doesn't always stay closed), and a broken mounting clip in the engine compartment of the Z4M were all refused under my extended waranties as being "trim".
I'm seriously considering a complaint to the insurance ombudsman about this. To me, "trim" constitutes items which are only cosmetic in nature. A glovbox lid which can fall on my passenger's knees at any time, or a wing mirror which vibrates to the extent that it affects my view of the traffic behind are functional items, and I don't consider them as "trim".