The RFT Saga Continues …

R

Rolf-Dieter

Active member
 Near Niagara on the Lake tasting fine wine
My 2 Cents on the comments from an article published by Roger Hart of Auto Week…………

Have a read of the article then let us have your 2 cents on your RFT experience ---> http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1160468

also be sure to read some of the comments after the article left by others

Tom Baloga, BMW's vice president of engineering, said the trend will continue… talking about RFT according to Roger Hart of Auto Week.

I have news for Mr. Tom Baloga, he should watch the trend of pissed off BMW customers looking elsewhere when it comes to purchasing a new car. This writer for one will change his RFT and never touch them again. Further when the time comes this writer after having driven BMW’s for the past 20 years will never again purchase another BMW if as Mr Baloga stated the trend will continue.

This is not only my view it is the view of many people out there Mr. Baloga best read some of the articles in the BMW Roundel Magazine and posts in BMW forums.

Further I cannot understand how a statement can be made that “reducing tire usage by 20 percent means the savings of millions of tires and the natural resources and energy needed to make them. Plus, you save the steel or aluminum wheels on which they are mounted”.

The overwhelming majority of people that purchase a BMW with the infamous RFT change them to conventional tires, further every RFT that has a flat or is damaged needs to be replaced with a new one. I ask you what is this statement all about in the article

“is reducing tire usage by 20 percent means the savings of millions of tires and the natural resources and energy needed to make them. Plus, you save the steel or aluminum wheels on which they are mounted”.

What about the wheels equipped with RFT are susceptible to cracks? This writer has lost 2 rear wheels to cracks after only driving 18,000 KM with a new BMW car, I ask you where is the Joy of driving? Indeed what happen to it?

I read that the RFT from Bridgestone now have out there 3rd Generation. Apparently much better then the 1st and 2nd Generation. Unfortunately the 3rd Generation is only available in Japan? I wonder when BMW customers can expect it in North America and Europe?

The 3rd Generation apparently also has better tire cooling capabilities, perhaps if I would have had the 3rd Generation RFT on my car I would have not lost 2 rear wheels due to cracks on the inside outer rim! The cracks in my wheels are not due to going thru potholes as potholes can easily be blamed. Not at all my failed wheels show no sign whatsoever of having gone thru potholes. With my limited Engineering background I come to the conclusion that going over humps and imperfections on North Americas Highways builds stresses in the soft alloy wheels and just like a paperclip the time comes when the stresses are released over one of the bumps and road imperfections and the result is a wheel crack.

I seriously question when the article makes statements such as ….
“Not only is it a safety issue” or “From a pure conservation point of view, run-flats are a green choice”.
What will be safe about it when a wheel fails at high speed and breaks up in pieces? (German Autobahns are very fast). Are we waiting for a fatal crash? How can someone say “pure conservation” with so many RFT finding there way to the recycle?

Was the original RFT not developed for Formula 1 Cars? There I can see the use of RFT as the pit crew carefully monitors the tire condition. The Formula 1 drivers are also well aware that they put there life on the line each time they get into a Formula 1 car.

Are we expected to think like a Formula 1 driver when we drive our $60,000.00 to $100,000.00 + Car?

When will BMW give his customers a choice as to what tires one can have on this fine automobile? :poke:
 
Rolf - I hear you, but your swimming against the tide.

All cars from all manufacturers over time will go to RFT's for vehicle packaging, weight saving, cost saving, etc. Imagine the old or new Z4 with a 17" spare taking up half the boot?

They will get ever better and in a few more years we may not even have pneumatic tyres. Think solid rubber wheels, Inner tubes, tubeless, RFT, and what next - Michelin already has many designs in test??

I'd disagree with your statement that the vast majority change them. I'd say just a few % do. Most don't know or care, only enthusiasts like us. Hell in surveys BMW owners don't even know if their car is RWD or FWD 4 or 6 cylinders.
 
totally agree with Phil tbh, not many even know they are runflats. And seen the new foam wheels? Like a RC car :lol:
 
I will never have RF's again but no question it is the trend and most other BMW owners that I talk to like them with the exception of Zed owners .
 
I would much prefer my missus to have them, at least then she would not be at the side of the road waiting for the RAC etc. Plus driven with one deflated, and they are very good.

Just dont put them on performance cars lol
 
Being new to the wonderful world of BMW and espcially Z4 i was intersted in the theory of run flat tyres. Having to replace the rear wheels on our new purchase, we looked into tyres, reading this and other forums. We opted in the end for Michelin zp (zero pressure) as the reviews said they reduce tramlinning etc. Having taken it for a blast down the M5, i can safely say i was scarred sh*t**ss by the way the car performed in the inside lane. It would take off everytime you leave the driving line. This is neither enjoyable or safe. Before addressing the 'green' issue surely car safety is more important. I have no issues with it being a cost saving for the manafacturers but let them produce a tyre that is safe and lets you enjoy car, not worry where the next swerve is coming from.
We are already seriously thinking of changing to 'normal' tyres!

So in my opinion both arguments have valid points but with the words 'next generation tyres' i assume they mean more expensive.



Newbie rant over :D
 
that is a major concern they are realy expensive even black circles quote around £220 a corner ! by the time your done with balencing and valves ect you dont get much change out of a grand !!! :(
 
ballington31 said:
that is a major concern they are realy expensive even black circles quote around £220 a corner ! by the time your done with balencing and valves ect you dont get much change out of a grand !!! :(
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:o Your paying £220 a corner :o

I run on conti sport contacts 2 rft's £129 a corner. that includes balanced and fitted
 
wot run flats ? where from nosa :o
i am running bridgestone 255/35/18 rear and 225/35/18 front at the moment cant find em anything like the cheap would even be cheaper to drive to scotland and back at that price :D
 
Nosa said:
ballington31 said:
that is a major concern they are realy expensive even black circles quote around £220 a corner ! by the time your done with balencing and valves ect you dont get much change out of a grand !!! :(
Click to expand...

:o Your paying £220 a corner :o

I run on conti sport contacts 2 rft's £129 a corner. that includes balanced and fitted
Click to expand...

Did not realise conti did them in runflats :roll: how do they handle?
 
May go the way of Betamax. I think they are transitional technologies and we will see some better alternatives emerging. In the meantime I am sticking with non fun flats as is less of a strain on my heart when driving and less wear and tear on my back too
 
Ah I forget I am on 17" rims that might be the difference in prices, I normally get mine from here, http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/
They handle ok but are not that great in very wet conditions (fish tailed on more than one occasion :oops: )and do tramline a fair bit.
I should perhaps mention I am looking to change to Non rft's soon :rofl:
 
cj10jeeper said:
Rolf - I hear you, but your swimming against the tide.

All cars from all manufacturers over time will go to RFT's for vehicle packaging, weight saving, cost saving, etc. Imagine the old or new Z4 with a 17" spare taking up half the boot?

They will get ever better and in a few more years we may not even have pneumatic tyres. Think solid rubber wheels, Inner tubes, tubeless, RFT, and what next - Michelin already has many designs in test??

I'd disagree with your statement that the vast majority change them. I'd say just a few % do. Most don't know or care, only enthusiasts like us. Hell in surveys BMW owners don't even know if their car is RWD or FWD 4 or 6 cylinders.
Click to expand...

I know, only in the meantime we are the ginny pigs running into problems etc. until the perfected RFT are available.
 
WLH said:
I will never have RF's again but no question it is the trend and most other BMW owners that I talk to like them with the exception of Zed owners .
Click to expand...

Bill,

It might be that a) we are closer to the ground our suspension is a bit harder we feel every bump, I bet I feel it if I run over a dime on the road. and b) We almost sit over the rear tire and can hear the road noise real well perhaps even being magnified a bit from the trunk into the cockpit :)

I am looking forward to the spring when I will mount Non-RFT :)
 
Rolf-Dieter, it will be interesting to hear your comparison to RF's after you make the change... :thumbsup:
One of the other reason I dropped RF's back in 2004 was I did some checking after someone else mentioned how hard it was to get replacement RF's while on a trip. I found out no one including BMW dealer stocked them and I became concerned what a mell of a hess I would be in if while on a cross country trip I needed a replacement tire... :?
 
Hello Bill,

I will let you know for sure. I should soon know the difference when I mount my winter set. I found a nice new replica M3 18x8 wheel set (looks exactly like my M3 that I sold in the spring). Since I live in an area where we don't get much snow at all and if we do it will melt in a day or two my plan is to mount a good all season tire instead of a winter tire. If we do have snow and I absolutely have to drive I take our other car that is a Jag X-Type AWD from 2004 in great condition. So I should know the driving difference very soon.

I know what you mean about RFT not being available that quickly, I had to wait in a small US town 72 hours for a new wheel (I'm sure you seen my posts on that ordeal :) I've shared it with people here so to give them the heads up, if only one life can be saved I will be happy). I strongly believe that the RFT is a safety issue that is being taken much to lithely right now.

Cheers, Rolf-Dieter
 
chris said:
totally agree with Phil tbh, not many even know they are runflats. And seen the new foam wheels? Like a RC car :lol:
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Chris, I am really surprised that you think this to be a laughing matter, I see it as a safety issue. If you really think about the RFT puts a lot of stress (even more so when flat and you drive it to the nearest tire shop) on the wheel. Picture a wheel breaking up at high speed? What then? No my Friend respectfully I don't see it as a laughing matter at all.

NB. I just read in another forum this fellows RFT blow up, the other one also had to be replaced cost him with balancing and mounting $1,100.00 US are you still laughing?

I will not link to the other forum, here is his post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote

Ugh... I don't feel like typing out this epic saga so I'll make it brief.

1 back tire blows, get it flatbedded to dealership.

They tell me both rears are worn out and need to be replaced.

Two tires for $800 plus labor = $1,100!

Car was CPO and they put new Potenzas on 2 months ago. The tires have 9,100mi on them. Invoice shows "tire defective", BMW says not covered.

Service guys tell me those tires typically start to go at 9-10k miles.

Some quick math shows with the high miles I put on these things, I'd be spending about an extra grand a month to keep it in RFT based on this blowout and the rep's experience.

.... so what are my options here?

I'm looking at these RFTs and they have a tread rating of 140. I'm tempted to put on some Yokohama Avid Envigors with a rating of 560. But what do I do with flats? Can I keep a slime kit handy or will that mess up the TPMS(which I know nothing about)? I need what little trunk space I have and can't be hauling around a spare.

End quote ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
I was agreeing with Phil, not laughing at the continuing runflat debaten :roll: I was however amused as the research for new Tyres gets more like radio control car Tyres, hence why I said "and seen the new foam wheels, like a RC car". This was not a joke, and research will see more and more foam based Tyres, as foam is softer and can be harder wearing, like dual composite Tyres for motorbikes :wink:

I do think your on a bit of a rampage against run flats though. I had them on mine for ages with no adverse effects, and as I said I had one deflate and I went straight to a garage and got it sorted. Which is much better than changing the wheel over at the side of the road!

As with everything, things will progress. And yes they do need to improve the run flat technology, but they can't do it all at once :wink: and apparently the new Bridgstone is far better. And certainly don't think they will stop using RFT because a handful of people have had issues with them. All car manufacturers will use them adventually. Plus compare blow outs from normal Tyres to RFT and it's less than 5% I bet.
 
Chris,

Thanks for clarifying :)

Yes I am a bit pissed off at BMW and RFT, you would be too if you had taken a vacation trip in the USA then have a flat and find out your rear wheel was the cause of it due to a crack. Then BMW tells you, sorry you only have 2 choices (since the warranty policy in the USA and Canada is not the same) a) you can call Roadside Assistance they will tow you to the nearest Canadian BMW dealership or b) order a new wheel and take the old one to Canada for a warranty claim.

Well I chose "b" When the new wheel arrived 72 hours later I paid for it (by now I laid out $1,000-) BMW told me then, oh sorry we don't have the equipment to change wheels it's done down the street at the tire shop. Well the tire shop damaged my wheel during the removal of the tire applied too much force and gauged the wheel in 2 places. During the change out of the wheel I asked the tire shop to check all the wheels, they found 2 more cracks in the other rear wheel (all BMW was capable to do is drive my car into there shop and check the tire pressure you would have thought at least they would have checked the other wheels).

Anyway I drove home another 3,000 KM with 2 hairline cracks in the other wheel and the wheel with the crack on my passenger seat. Once back home BMW told me sorry, your wheel did not pass the BMW check of 0,300 mm out off round check. No wonder with a crack open at the very top by 0,800 mm how can it run true.

I you like you can see photos here

http://web.me.com/solgain/My_New_BMW_Z4_sDrive35i/Photos_3.html

I do agree that RTF are the way of the future only I hate to be a ginny pig and pay during the trial period while the big companies try to get it right.
 
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