The June 2012 Photo Competition - COMMENTS

Not to long ago I gave my opinion on the subject and asked for comments. There were none at that time so lets have them...

WLH said:
Here is my opinion on the subject. Please feel free to disagree. First it is very difficult to prove if an image has been photoshopped. Before digital photography those individuals that were more experienced often developed and printed their own photos. Once the negative was developed they could use their skill to improved the image by a variety of means in the darkroom. Including the choice of paper, use of filters in printing, dodging, burning, lens or easel tilt just to mention a few basic methods. Then there was retouching which was done directly on the negative or the finished print. In effect what they were doing was “photoshopping”. I can't recall that any of these techniques were forbidden when entering a photo into a contest. Today with digital photography “photoshopping” IMO is nothing more that what was once done in the darkroom. Photoshopping is a necessary skill for the advanced amateur today as much as a darkroom was for the advanced amateur 20 or 30 years ago.
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Here's mine, as I said before.
Only 'experts' or people with a fair bit of knowledge could tinker in the darkroom or use photoshop, normal snappers just point and click and what they saw is what they got. So only people with knowledge could, then and now, improve their photos (not including cropping) so people who take good pics with their iPhone or little camera and then don't know how to tinker don't usually stand a chance against the 'experts' who enter the competition.
I just think one month with no tinkering, subject to cropping or whatever's decided, would be a fairer contest.

My two pence worth. Shutting up now. :D :soapbox:
 
Just for the record I am open to having a month with "no photoshoping" but in the past it has not been all that popular and photos were questioned. I will give the most weight to comments from those individuals that often enter into the contest.
 
WLH said:
Just for the record I am open to having a month with "no photoshoping" but in the past it has not been all that popular and photos were questioned. I will give the most weight to comments from those individuals that often enter into the contest.
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Do the ones that enter often use photoshop a lot? :poke: :D *kisses*

I haven't ever entered because I'm rubbish with photoshop!
 
Editing is an integral part of digital imagery. Photoshop is in essence the digital darkroom. A well edited picture is one that the viewer cannot tell the image has been tinkered with and that is a rule which should be abided by, that is good photography and editing. At the end of the day it is a photography competition and editing is a vital part of the skill.

But I dont mind, I go to great lengths to reduce my time at the machine and most of my images are as they are out of camera with a slight alteration to colour for style and contrast. Also sharpening as all digital images need sharpening out of camera. I explained my image in last months photo competition thread so if anyone wants some insight then its there although it is a pretty complex situation of exposure, fooling the camera and natural/unnatural light wiuth external studio lights etc.

Competition is a good thing it improves skill and makes you try new things.

I disagree that anyone has to have a fair bit of knowledge to tinker. Its about having fun and finding an aesthetic you like through experimentation. More an excuse or scared to try in my opinion :poke:

If anything the iphone has brought image manipulation to a new level and made it accessible to everyone with apps that allow you to simply edit your images, like the PS app or hipstermatic etc. Gives you some great effects that would need a lot of knowledge to create otherwise. Everyone underestimates the iPhone I reckon I could make an image similar to my winner last month with an iPhone, but it would take a lot of effort granted and a huge amount of PS.

But at the end of the day stopping amateurs and enthusiasts from using photoshop would mean a month of very bland images. Getting it right in camera is a skill which is why there are professional photographers. Also Point and shoot cameras dont allow the creative ability that an SLR does, so photoshop is where that creation can come from. Photoshop is a lot easier to make a bland shot look like a pro image. Although you have to spend 10x longer on it, for me its easier to do it right first time and use photoshop as a last resort which I have and also I have made mistakes in the past where PS has been a life saver. But heres a few examples of I think some cool images I took and edited on an iPhone 3Gs camera 3mp no flash...

not the best example but a quick one, neither were made for competition but me just playing with some new apps on my phone. 3MP BTW just to emphasise!!

AvvtPykCIAIm6Pi.jpg


I would put some of my boo boos up too.. and how I made them look perfect without the viewer being able to tell but i dont have the original files with me atm.
 
Shouldnt really be doing this lol! But I dont mind everyone makes mistakes

Here is a real big blooper exposure completely off... on a shoot with some friends so it wasnt that important just some fun but I really liked the image (although not composed particularly well) and saw some potential so had a play heres the before and after. PS can be a lifesaver.

AvvxqBzCEAEMgIR.jpg
 
tomscott, excellent post and you defined the problem of not allowing PS quite succinctly as you pointed out photo shopping done correctly won't even be suspected. The other concern I have with not allowing photo shopping is many of the cameras have some of that ability built right in. Everything being equal an experienced photographer will always take the better picture. One of the benefits of participating in our monthly contest is that regular participation will improve your skills.
 
Ah well, that's me told! I'll mind me own business in future! :poke: :)

Just thought one month without photoshop would be a fair option for some folks who don't use photo editing software.

I love looking at and voting on the monthly photo competition so long may it continue. :thumbsup:
 
Photo shopping doesn't bother me that much, if people feel they have to tinker with their picture to make it look better then thats up to them, what does annoy me is when you put in an entry and some smartypants feels it is their place to point out what they would have done to make it better. I don't mind critisism, when it is asked for. but we can't all be budding David Baileys, I tend to vote on location, angle, or something out of the ordinary, that shows the picture taker is using a bit of initiative rather than relying on photoshop to make a mediocre picture look a bit better.

Just my tuppence worth
 
I think a month of competition without PhotoShopping won't hurt. But mentioned above already the pro with SLR cameras and more experience will probably have the better shots anyway.
Just try and see how it goes I suppose.
 
For me photoshop has gotten to a stage where it cannot be easily separated from digital photography, which makes it harder to approach a scenario like the monthly photo competition where in essence all your doing is trying to create a unique image that will appeal to the majority of forum members.

Without wishing to belittle the competition its not really intended to be an exploration into someones photographic prowess, its an opportunity for people to have fun, share some shots/ideas and see what others come up with. The moment you start to enforce rules like this the closet experts start to pop up and before you know it everyone will be picking through images with a pixelviewer. The fun aspect will be lost and people will naturally be disadvantaged :thumbsdown: The reason I say this is because its alot easier to access freeware post processing apps and get usable output than it is to grab a DSLR, get the exposure bang on in the field, and get shots you like.

Just my 2cents
 
I think it would be nice to have a month without photoshop,
I don't think you need it all the time and would show a more natural image
There is still quite a lot you can do with a camera and a bit of light ,,if you know how to use it.
 
I personally think photoshop will help beginners and amateurs more than a pro.

Some times I take over 5000 images per week and the less of photoshop I use the better, in camera for ,,,well most of the time lol


Natural light only with no photoshop would be a good one
 
r1andy said:
I personally think photoshop will help beginners and amateurs more than a pro.

Some times I take over 5000 images per week and the less of photoshop I use the better, in camera for ,,,well most of the time lol


Natural light only with no photoshop would be a good one
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Not sure I agree with it helping beginners and amateurs. If you rely on the computer to sort out bad pics you'll never improve.

I like your natural light idea tho' :thumbsup:
 
r1andy said:
I personally think photoshop will help beginners and amateurs more than a pro.
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Bingo. It helps because the pics may not necessarily be bad but means you can add some creative effects to them, that make them stand out.

I dont understand the dislike for PS. At the end of the day its designed to improve your images. Shooting yourself in the foot if you ask me, more the fact people wont try something new or out of they're comfort zone. Like I said all images need some post... like sharpening for instance. Where is the line drawn? Especially if you shoot digital raw, because they need to be processed to get a useable image... Digital is not like film where a certain type will give you a different effect like velvia that will give you a very nice contrasty and saturated image, these effects need to be added in post processing. Photoshop basically recreates original film effects although it does a lot more now. A digital sensor will give you an untouched image so really it just restrains creativity for most that dont know how to produce effects in camera with light as your only tool. Light is the hardest thing to master, time of day where the sun is in the sky controlling shadows etc and thats why people pay photographers.

I think the hardest bit is where to draw the line... giving the exif data with the files... shooting everything with a preset jpeg output in a camera. It all get complicated, and at the end of the day a slightly boring months comp. It is a photography comp not a choose the best looking car comp.
 
Im fine with the no photoshopping bit, more fighting for it for everyone else... my images arent heavily PS just touched up, colour processing and sharpened.. But post processing is a integral part of digital imaging, without a computer there would be no digital imagery... your camera processes your images with the presets you make so... that in essence a small scale version of photoshop.
 
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