The jab ..
- Thread starter pvr
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Well Ron I hope for everyone sake's the jab does give some additional safety. I think the jury is out though, sad to say. "What are are you doing to stay safe?" For me, I don't go out that is what I do. It is easy for me though as I have worked from home for 12 years. If I pop to the shops I keep out of everyone's way. In fact I treat all as if they have the virus. Actually it is not that difficult. I also go to the shop when I know there will be bugger all in there.
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I run my own business from home Ronk. Pretty much only leave the house to exercise and walk the dog. Mrs does the shopping and I have obeyed all the stupid rules that have been set.
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Stevo1987 said:
How long do you think you will think like this?
So effectively Steve, you are locked down like the rest of us? It’s no life really is it?
No pubs, meals out, holidays, socialising etc etc. Disagree with the jab by all means - but we need an alternative to being locked down - I’ve done if for over a year now and like many others I’m well brassed off with it.
Lack of contact contact isn’t going to bring this to an end - look what happened after eat out to help out.
We hear of the potential super immune systems of younger people. Unfortunately it’s not a transferable asset.
No pubs, meals out, holidays, socialising etc etc. Disagree with the jab by all means - but we need an alternative to being locked down - I’ve done if for over a year now and like many others I’m well brassed off with it.
Lack of contact contact isn’t going to bring this to an end - look what happened after eat out to help out.
We hear of the potential super immune systems of younger people. Unfortunately it’s not a transferable asset.
Old-Duckman said:
Can you say this? I thought at best asymptomatic people MAY or MAY NOT transmit the virus and at worst they DO - again depends where you read but I couldn't find anything to support this that's peer reviewed.
For me this notion of peer checking is important (read my earlier post) because otherwise it all becomes personal opinion of the author and yes it requires engaging with the 'establishment' but that how we've avoided quack medicines in the past and sh1sters adulterating food stuffs for profit - or selling 'bush meat' as in the start of all this in China.
All depends what your value systems are and your world view.
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ronk said:
Oh no, I agree. If you want to stop any form of virus spreading then you separate people and don't allow them to have contact.
Fundamentally it seems like a great idea if that is all that matters.
But it's not just about the above. We have babies that haven't seen the faces of anyone other than their own parent's for a year now (I know it's terrible with dogs to not have them socialised but I wonder what it's like with small children). We have teenagers not going to school and sitting exams. Uni students robbed of their education. Still paying 9k a year for it and all their rent money too. We people my age (and yours) not going to hospital for routine cancer check ups, operations etc that are sadly going to die with cancer next year. Add that in with all the suicides, mental health problems and deaths in other area's for locking people up.
And that's without even mentioning the mass unemployment that is going to happen when the furlough scheme runs out in two months as we have completely destroyed sectors of our economy with millions of people who will struggle to pay their bills.
When you take a look at what covid and brexit will do from a micro and macro economic perspective both in the economy and socially it's a f**king disaster- complete carnage.
I think alot of the furlough workers are not looking more forward than their next pay packet. What they don't realise (and I am sure they will soon change their tune) is that a good percentage of their job's won't be around in 2 months time. And the ones that are fortunate enough to have a job still will be extremely worried about theirs. Ask yourself- what has got to change for these furlough workers jobs to become viable in the next 2 months and will it??? When the penny drops here it will be a big moment.
The above it just the tip of the iceberg for the younger generations. The low-mid income earner from my generation are going to feel a squeeze for the next 10-15 years off the back of this.
(Very big generalisation here, I apologise in advance) but to you (Not you directly) but "you"- our senior generation (who are the only group of people on the whole from a statistic point of view are at any form of great risk from the virus -discount what you read in the papers, watch on BBC or what Piers tells you- just look at the death age numbers- 74.9% of the deaths are over 75 and the life expectancy in the UK is 81).
The poor seniors with their final salary pensions, life expectancy 20+ years longer than the day they were born, in their houses that are the same as ours but they paid an 8th of the price for- it's not a major concern these lockdowns (obviously the media have you petrified of death and scared out of you whits about a virus that you have a 99.9% chance of surviving) - you could probably be convince to stay like this for another couple of years if they turn up the "fear" dial. Bit annoying as you can't go out as much nor see the family but it's not the end of the world- the lights stay on and the money keeps rolling in- the threat of poverty is not an issue for you but for many a 20-somthing the threat is real. Statistically they don't have to worry about death but the next 6 months will be very real for them.
I don't want to kill any over 75's or anything- I am not an ar*ehole. But I don't want to destroy anyone's future either. It's a fine balance with getting it all right and at this moment in time the youth are getting completely screwed. And right now (in my opinion) locking up people under 40 (or not giving them the choice) is borderline criminal. We have the same approach now (in most countries) that we did at the start of last year when we thought it was going to kill everyone. It isn't.
I am not intentionally trying to offend anyone here. All life is precious but I am just saying what I see.
I just pray that these jabs's work for the seniors so we can go about saving the juniors.
^^^^^^^^
You’re forgetting one thing there Mgarlane...how on earth are the NHS supposed to cope if we are let loose and go about normal life pretty much ignoring the virus...? It’s bad enough now, they’re at the limit capacity wise and exhausted. You mention folk not getting routine op’s etc, it’d be even worse your way. I get the frustration but you cannot let folk deal with the virus effects on their own, you don’t need me to tell you the effect it can have, you’ve seen what it does.
You’re forgetting one thing there Mgarlane...how on earth are the NHS supposed to cope if we are let loose and go about normal life pretty much ignoring the virus...? It’s bad enough now, they’re at the limit capacity wise and exhausted. You mention folk not getting routine op’s etc, it’d be even worse your way. I get the frustration but you cannot let folk deal with the virus effects on their own, you don’t need me to tell you the effect it can have, you’ve seen what it does.
Having said that though, I have not experienced the non treatment of other issues at all. My mother in law saw a GP a month or so ago on a friday, and she had a scan on tuesday, a second type of scan on friday and a third appointment the week after. I was absolutely amazed as I was expecting that due to what the media was telling everyone, she would have no hope in hell of getting an appointment.
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It's bad now because it's underfunded and we are slap bang in the middle of flue season with covid being the cherry on top. Even though we had 10 months to prepare for this flue season (complete madness).
Protect the old John and you protect the NHS. Protect the young and they can keep it running with their NI contributions (I appreciate the old have contributed too).
Circa 50-55% the deaths from Covid in hospitals are over 80 Circa 35% are 60-80 and Circa 10% are 40-60 with a slither of the remaining being between 20-40 and literally nothing being in the 0-20 age range.
These figures above are not fact but what I can see of the hospital deaths (not care-home or died at home) that are published every day.
Example- yesterday
907 hospital deaths
0-19 0
20-39 7
40-59- 71
60-79-351
80+ 478
If the above was the other way round I would be sh*tting my pants (not just for myself but for the future of humanity)- But it isn't so I am not.
If you factor in that the life expectancy in the UK is 81 then half of those people (80+ bracket) unfortunately will not be around for to much longer (this sounds super cruel and I don't mean it that way I am just pointing it out- my Nan is 93 and I will be devastated when she goes). I love my parents very dearly who are in the 60-79 age bracket but the risks for all three of our generations from both the virus and the economic implications are not comparable.
I would love to see the figures for age of people entering hospital with covid (not including the caught covid in hospital). There might be alot of young people going in and recovering- i just don't know. If it is through the roof then this could be a problem.
My point, I know I ramble alot... Is we need to find some sort of happy medium where both sets of people are looked after.
Just opening up (as you say) is clearly not the right thing to do. But nor is keeping healthy people at very little risk prisoner in their own homes.
I just pray that these jab's work and/or it burns out.
Protect the old John and you protect the NHS. Protect the young and they can keep it running with their NI contributions (I appreciate the old have contributed too).
Circa 50-55% the deaths from Covid in hospitals are over 80 Circa 35% are 60-80 and Circa 10% are 40-60 with a slither of the remaining being between 20-40 and literally nothing being in the 0-20 age range.
These figures above are not fact but what I can see of the hospital deaths (not care-home or died at home) that are published every day.
Example- yesterday
907 hospital deaths
0-19 0
20-39 7
40-59- 71
60-79-351
80+ 478
If the above was the other way round I would be sh*tting my pants (not just for myself but for the future of humanity)- But it isn't so I am not.
If you factor in that the life expectancy in the UK is 81 then half of those people (80+ bracket) unfortunately will not be around for to much longer (this sounds super cruel and I don't mean it that way I am just pointing it out- my Nan is 93 and I will be devastated when she goes). I love my parents very dearly who are in the 60-79 age bracket but the risks for all three of our generations from both the virus and the economic implications are not comparable.
I would love to see the figures for age of people entering hospital with covid (not including the caught covid in hospital). There might be alot of young people going in and recovering- i just don't know. If it is through the roof then this could be a problem.
My point, I know I ramble alot... Is we need to find some sort of happy medium where both sets of people are looked after.
Just opening up (as you say) is clearly not the right thing to do. But nor is keeping healthy people at very little risk prisoner in their own homes.
I just pray that these jab's work and/or it burns out.
I was writing a longer reply, bur mgrlane got in before me. Probably just as well....john-e89 said:^^^^^^^^
You’re forgetting one thing there Mgarlane...how on earth are the NHS supposed to cope if we are let loose and go about normal life pretty much ignoring the virus...? It’s bad enough now, they’re at the limit capacity wise and exhausted. You mention folk not getting routine op’s etc, it’d be even worse your way. I get the frustration but you cannot let folk deal with the virus effects on their own, you don’t need me to tell you the effect it can have, you’ve seen what it does.
But the irrefutable facts are that the NHS will not be over-run by the 0 to 60 year olds.
So, as has already been mentioned many times, let the children who need educating and social interaction get back to schools and universities, and let the rest of the working population crack on. And those who are vulnerable, old and want to self isolate, do it. Let's protect them. And jab away. Most of us here have mothers and fathers. We do understand.
It's not selfish, it's common sense.
D
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Z4C_er said:
That's rough man.
Z4C_er said:
Tbh day by day I am more supportive of this, we are currently spinning our wheels in the mud going nowhere while the economy absolutely dies and the debt crisis deepens, not only are we shafting ourselves but also probably the next 3 or 4 generations :thumbsdown:
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Z4C_er said:
It's got to be a good deal for everyone tho. We have to protect our vulnerable but also protect the livelihoods of our young and working population.
The answer is not at either of the extremes (lock everyone up vs "let her rip"). The vaccination is the best hope for the over 60's because I don't think the economy or the young are going to take another year of it. Everything is fine and dandy at the moment when a good percentage of the youth are getting a "pension" for staying in but least forget that money is borrowed and they haven't paid for it! (yet).
Z4C_er said:I was writing a longer reply, bur mgrlane got in before me. Probably just as well....john-e89 said:^^^^^^^^
You’re forgetting one thing there Mgarlane...how on earth are the NHS supposed to cope if we are let loose and go about normal life pretty much ignoring the virus...? It’s bad enough now, they’re at the limit capacity wise and exhausted. You mention folk not getting routine op’s etc, it’d be even worse your way. I get the frustration but you cannot let folk deal with the virus effects on their own, you don’t need me to tell you the effect it can have, you’ve seen what it does.
But the irrefutable facts are that the NHS will not be over-run by the 0 to 60 year olds.
So, as has already been mentioned many times, let the children who need educating and social interaction get back to schools and universities, and let the rest of the working population crack on. And those who are vulnerable, old and want to self isolate, do it. Let's protect them. And jab away. Most of us here have mothers and fathers. We do understand.
It's not selfish, it's common sense.
I didn’t say it was selfish Z4C...I’m not pointing any fingers, you make a good point.
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Z4C_er said:
Lol I see- we basically said the same thing!
