The dreaded roof issue has come calling !

[304frp]

Hi everyone ,
Fairly new member so please be patient!
I have what I hope is a common roof issue, whereby on opening the roof from the switch, it opens without fault until the boot lid closes (with roof fully stored correctly) and then when it’s fully down the ‘bong’occurs and windows will not close.
Then on closing, the roof works perfectly until window section is on top of roof section , boot hatch closes correctly then ‘bong’ roof will not drop into position !
The rear deck closes fully as it always has,but you can almost tell it thinks it hasn’t , so I give a sharp/hard push, down on to the black surface which the window section closes onto ( nothing actual happens that I can see as it is fully closed) and the roof then carries on in the normal way in both closing/opening mode.
Now after some digging around the net , and some fantastic info on this site from various members, Im thinking it’s the microswitches and not the hall sensors on the the ram. I’m going to check the connections firstly , then proceed to buy the switches/ sensors.
The hall sensors are ridiculously expensive to say the least. A little further digging found that the hall sensors from a 1 series can be chopped and soldered to suit . Is this method still ok to do , as they look identical, minus connector.
Lastly I maybe/possibly to blame as literally the week before I liberally lubed all the moving parts of the hinges etc, and I’m now pretty sure I have inadvertently got lube in the micro switches under the rear deck hinges
Please ridicule away , I’ve learnt the lesson in all this !!
But before I tinker further ANY help/further advice will be warmly welcomed.
Andy

 

[Chippie]

I’m no expert and not had any problems with mine but from what you have said I think you are correct about it being the micro switch’s and that would be the first thing I would check, you could try spraying some electrical cleaner on them it may help remove any oil contamination in the switch

 

[304frp]

Hi yes that’s my thinking , I am going to try the contact cleaner also I’ve got some servisol contact cleaner so yes I will also try that

 

[Anonymous]

Does sound like the failure mode I have which it is asserted to be one or both of the micro switches next to the rams in the boot as you suggest.

Mine has mysteriously fixed itself as the temperatures warmed up..have the switches ready to fit now but waiting for a permanent fault...

 

[RobbiZ4]

I have what I hope is a common roof issue, whereby on opening the roof from the switch, it opens without fault until the boot lid closes (with roof fully stored correctly) and then when it’s fully down the ‘bong’occurs and windows will not close.
Then on closing, the roof works perfectly until window section is on top of roof section, boot hatch closes correctly then ‘bong’ roof will not drop into position !

Hi Andy,
exactly the typical issue with the 2 microswitches on top of both rams of the lid. Have to be replaced.

...as literally the week before I liberally lubed all the moving parts of the hinges etc, and I’m now pretty sure I have inadvertently got lube in the micro switches under the rear deck hinges ..

What a nonsense!
As several times stated before: never ever think about any lubrication in the roof's mechanic! The often quoted YouTube video should be dropped ASAP.

 

[RobbiZ4]

Does sound like the failure mode I have which it is asserted to be one or both of the micro switches next to the rams in the boot as you suggest.

Mine has mysteriously fixed itself as the temperatures warmed up..have the switches ready to fit now but waiting for a permanent fault...

There is a kind of corrosion inside of these two switches. The signal to the CTM might be random depending on the weather, temperature, time of day or whatever!

 

[Anonymous]

Does sound like the failure mode I have which it is asserted to be one or both of the micro switches next to the rams in the boot as you suggest.

Mine has mysteriously fixed itself as the temperatures warmed up..have the switches ready to fit now but waiting for a permanent fault...

There is a kind of corrosion inside of these two switches. The signal to the CTM is a randomly depending on the weather, temperature, time of day or whatever!

Aha thanks..looking at the design with the rubber seal I had hoped for their to be a stable environment within the switch.

This kinds of explains the issue I’m suffering...

Long periods of inactivity plus we have had a very cold / damp winter would lead to such corrosion both forming and not being ‘cleaned’ by the switch action...I assume a combination of use and warmer much dryer weather has temporarily mitigated the issue. :tumbleweed:

Anyway got the switches now so will either wait for a more sustained failure and/or wait till next winter then tackle it myself when I’ve built my garage

 

[RobbiZ4]

Aha thanks..looking at the design with the rubber seal I had hoped for their to be a stable environment within the switch.

Interestingly, there is absolutely no known issue with the original, small plugs on those microswitches. I don't have any clue, why somebody at BMW or EDSCHA has replaced these plugs with sealed ones.
The corrossion happens INSIDE of the switches, not on the plugs.

Tip for mounting the new sealed plugs on the old E89 loom:

- don't even think about buying those expensive adapters, that BMW offers. You have to solder those adaters anyway!
- carefully unplug and remove the black 'n white plug housings from the old microswitches
- destroy(!) the new plugs with a small side cutter
- pinout those 2 new pins
- push the green seals back and out of the new pins
- re-crimp the 2 new pins to reduce the diameter
- put these reworked, new pins into the old white and black plug housings

 

[Anonymous]

Aha thanks..looking at the design with the rubber seal I had hoped for their to be a stable environment within the switch.

Interestingly, there is absolutely no known issue with the original, small plugs on those microswitches. I don't have any clue, why somebody at BMW or EDSCHA has replaced these plugs with sealed ones.
The corrossion happens INSIDE of the switches, not on the plugs.

Tip for mouning the new sealed plugs on the old E89 loom:

- don't even think about buying those expensive adapters, that BMW offers. You have to solder those adaters anyway!
- carefully unplug and remove the black 'n white plug housings from the old microswitches
- destroy(!) the new plugs with a small side cutter
- pinout those 2 new pins
- push the green seals back and out of the contact
- re-crimp the 2 new pins to reduce the diameter
- put these reworked, new pins into the old white and black plug housing

Got it..thnx!

 

[304frp]

Great info , thanks , off to bmw on Monday !.

 

[stijohnny]

I have what I hope is a common roof issue, whereby on opening the roof from the switch, it opens without fault until the boot lid closes (with roof fully stored correctly) and then when it’s fully down the ‘bong’occurs and windows will not close.
Then on closing, the roof works perfectly until window section is on top of roof section, boot hatch closes correctly then ‘bong’ roof will not drop into position !

Hi Andy,
exactly the typical issue with the 2 microswitches on top of both rams of the lid. Have to be replaced.

...as literally the week before I liberally lubed all the moving parts of the hinges etc, and I’m now pretty sure I have inadvertently got lube in the micro switches under the rear deck hinges ..

What a nonsense!
As several times stated before: never ever think about any lubrication in the roof's mechanic! The often quoted YouTube video should be dropped ASAP.

RobbiZ4 - good to see you back on the forum. Personally I always enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative, I dont have too much experience with the e89 Z4.

 

[Zed Baron]

RobbiZ4 - good to see you back on the forum. Personally I always enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative, I dont have too much experience with the e89 Z4.

 

[304frp]

Is there a specific reason why not to lube any of the hinges etc I used a dry lube / ceramic that I use on my cycle chains didn’t think much of it really , the boot hinges did have rust , dust around the moving parts .

 

[Smartbear]

Is there a specific reason why not to lube any of the hinges etc I used a dry lube / ceramic that I use on my cycle chains didn’t think much of it really , the boot hinges did have rust , dust around the moving parts .

I remember reading that the hinges have phosphor bronze bushes which shouldn’t be lubricated.
Rob

 

[RobbiZ4]

Is there a specific reason why not to lube any of the hinges etc I used a dry lube / ceramic that I use on my cycle chains didn’t think much of it really , the boot hinges did have rust , dust around the moving parts .

Yes, there is.

I remember reading that the hinges have phosphor bronze bushes which shouldn’t be lubricated.

Correct.

The "rust" mentioned before is from the special bearing bushes in all joints. IT IS NO RUST. Each critical joint is protected by these bearing bushes. The source of the red "rust" flakes can be seen on the following picture.


You achieve exactly the opposite of your original idea with lubrication:
Dust gets bound.

https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/dach-pflege-wie-was-und-wo.138799/post-3055778

 

[RobbiZ4]

Another point is seal care.

I recommend the following for a yearly use on all bigger seals of the roof:




My collected recommendations:
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/robbis-z4-e89-faq-und-empfehlungsliste-my-recommendations.133084/post-3103026

 

[304frp]

Very informative, I’ll not use a lube again then , I’ll be told I don’t have an image of the seal protectant come up , what is it you recommend?

 

[RobbiZ4]

Very informative, I’ll not use a lube again then , I’ll be told I don’t have an image of the seal protectant come up , what is it you recommend?

Welcome. :rofl:

Well, I made an update on my former post and replaced the initial link with a pic. Even if its a German eBay offer, you'll find it anywhere on the web.

 

[304frp]

Cool , I’ll take a look at that stuff .Also the roof has worked fine today which lends to your theory of the differing climates change the reaction in the switches . If they use differing metals inside the switch is probably galvanic corrosion, which is occurring .

Thanks again
Andy

 

[RobbiZ4]

If they use differing metals inside the switch is problem galvanic corrosion, which is occurring.

Well, have a look at a grinded(correct?) microswitch coupling lock:


Interestingly this item still works electrically as well as mechanically correct. :rofl:


A better view on this very special switch: