Tax - Petrol UK. What would it take before you gave up!
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i have a 2001 406 hdi with 130,000 miles i bought for £1500.. id noticed that with all the talk of the fuel prices ive subconciously left the z4m in the garage unused for about 2 weeks.. 
got it out yesterday and today and i have to say, id still use it at £3 a litre.. its just so damn wonderful.
however its a double edged sword.. the 406 does 700 miles on a tank, but diesel is so expensive it now costs over £90 to fill it up.
my dads just bought a new 320d convertible with the effient dynamics stuff.. he's getting about 60mpg because he drives it like a wuss for the principle. im not sure id go so far as turning off the engine every time i stop to save a few drops of fuel, but i drove the M a darn sight slower back to london after seeing it, and *just* managed to keep it at 30.0 mpg on the m40.. that means about 300m a tank, so i guess the 406 is half the price to drive.
i have to say, when i change the M, it will probably be to a diesel convertible. i drove the 320d cabby, 60mpg, 150g co2, 175bhp.. it's too tempting.
got it out yesterday and today and i have to say, id still use it at £3 a litre.. its just so damn wonderful. however its a double edged sword.. the 406 does 700 miles on a tank, but diesel is so expensive it now costs over £90 to fill it up.
my dads just bought a new 320d convertible with the effient dynamics stuff.. he's getting about 60mpg because he drives it like a wuss for the principle. im not sure id go so far as turning off the engine every time i stop to save a few drops of fuel, but i drove the M a darn sight slower back to london after seeing it, and *just* managed to keep it at 30.0 mpg on the m40.. that means about 300m a tank, so i guess the 406 is half the price to drive.
i have to say, when i change the M, it will probably be to a diesel convertible. i drove the 320d cabby, 60mpg, 150g co2, 175bhp.. it's too tempting.
On a long run mostly motorway and keeping to 75-80 mph you can get 30+ m.p.g. out of a Z4 'M' whereas the new M3 seems to struggle to return much better than 20 m.p.g. in similar driving (thirsty V8). My better half's X5 is worse and you need to take out a mortgage to fill that thing up.
So the Z4 M is really a very sensible car....no really
So the Z4 M is really a very sensible car....no really
Spaceman Spiff
Member
mikedav said:
I guess the real question is, how much more will it take to get you guys up in arms rioting on the streets! Everybody's bitchin here about the possibility of the prices hitting $5...
I don't think people will ever give up the freedom a car gives over public transport. They will sacrifice many other things first. We'll also never see clear roads as alternative fules will keep some sort of 'car' on the space.
Me I don't care. Not that I'm wealthy, but of choice I spend my money on cars not cigarretes, beer or excessive - well anything really.
Did flinch slightly though at my first £100 tank last week in the X5 2 weeks back; and £1.24 /litre on the M40 this week!!
Me I don't care. Not that I'm wealthy, but of choice I spend my money on cars not cigarretes, beer or excessive - well anything really.
Did flinch slightly though at my first £100 tank last week in the X5 2 weeks back; and £1.24 /litre on the M40 this week!!
Spaceman Spiff
Member
sp3ctre said:
A good hybrid can double your mileage. With a smaller non-hybrid 1.5x is probably the best you can do. Also, you can pump non-premium 87 in pretty much all those alternative which further reduces your cost.
If it got really bad, the Tesla Roadster becomes very attractive...fully electric, 0-60 in under 4 seconds and $100k...
It is shocking. It's mainly due to 65% tax, so our 'raw' fuel costs about the same as it does for you. We had fuel protests about 8 years ago; truckers blockaded the refineries, fuel could not get out and for about 2 weeks the country virtually shut down. Government lambasted the 'selfish truckers' for 'ruining life for Britons' but ask anyone in the street and they all support it. Sadly it never went anywhere and fuel is double what it was then. Yet in the US you have congressional hearings when it hits half that...
...what a nation of push overs.
Spaceman Spiff said:
It is shocking. It's mainly due to 65% tax, so our 'raw' fuel costs about the same as it does for you. We had fuel protests about 8 years ago; truckers blockaded the refineries, fuel could not get out and for about 2 weeks the country virtually shut down. Government lambasted the 'selfish truckers' for 'ruining life for Britons' but ask anyone in the street and they all support it. Sadly it never went anywhere and fuel is double what it was then. Yet in the US you have congressional hearings when it hits half that...
...what a nation of push overs.
Was thinking. Now I own 2 cars and I have 2 motorbikes! Why in the UK do I have to pay road tax on all the vehicles I own when only one will be on the road at a time! The motorbike spends a big time a year just sat in my garage. That's just wrong!! :x
Tax, tax, tax is all this country is about and we as a nation just sit back and moan to ourselves instead of doing something about it! :roll:
Tax, tax, tax is all this country is about and we as a nation just sit back and moan to ourselves instead of doing something about it! :roll:
!!, but as for the wifes diesel Ford Galaxy well......... 
Maybe you guys from across the pond can give me a little education. When I purchase a vehicle here in Fl, I pay a sales tax of 7% and a few fees to get a tag (maybe $150.00 or less, title, etc. ) after that it is just insurance and car payment and the yearly tag renewal which is a $45.00 fee. Now here are my questions.
1. What is a CO2 fee?
2. What is a road tax and how much does it cost?
3. How come your taxes are so high on your fuel and where does the tax money go?
4. What kind of sales tax do you pay on a purchase?
5. Do you get hit for having a sports car (like our gas guzzler penalty)?
Just curious as it seems the fees and taxes related to auto ownership in Europe are out of sight. Thanks, JBZ4
1. What is a CO2 fee?
2. What is a road tax and how much does it cost?
3. How come your taxes are so high on your fuel and where does the tax money go?
4. What kind of sales tax do you pay on a purchase?
5. Do you get hit for having a sports car (like our gas guzzler penalty)?
Just curious as it seems the fees and taxes related to auto ownership in Europe are out of sight. Thanks, JBZ4
1. Company car tax and road tax is based on the amount of CO2 emissions
2. Road tax is purchased every 6 or 12 months (your choice)
3. Good question - f*@$ing thieving government
4. 17.5%
5. All based on CO2, which is likely to be higher for a sports car or SUV, then you need to put in more fuel, etc, etc.
Out of sight is correct! I'm emigrating to the US or an oil-rich arab country
2. Road tax is purchased every 6 or 12 months (your choice)
3. Good question - f*@$ing thieving government
4. 17.5%
5. All based on CO2, which is likely to be higher for a sports car or SUV, then you need to put in more fuel, etc, etc.
Out of sight is correct! I'm emigrating to the US or an oil-rich arab country
1. What is a CO2 fee?
Road tax is based on CO2 emissions, the more 'polluting' the more you pay annually
2. What is a road tax and how much does it cost?
An annual fee to use your car on the road - banding based upon CO2 emissions - can be free/£30 or can go upto £400 a year soon
3. How come your taxes are so high on your fuel and where does the tax money go?
Because our government are bastards, and they spend it on crap
4. What kind of sales tax do you pay on a purchase?
17.5% sales tax - but it is usually built into the price you see, not added on at the till like in the US
5. Do you get hit for having a sports car (like our gas guzzler penalty)?
Yes, through CO2 based charging, and increased fuel consumption (and therefore tax on fuel).
Road tax is based on CO2 emissions, the more 'polluting' the more you pay annually
2. What is a road tax and how much does it cost?
An annual fee to use your car on the road - banding based upon CO2 emissions - can be free/£30 or can go upto £400 a year soon
3. How come your taxes are so high on your fuel and where does the tax money go?
Because our government are bastards, and they spend it on crap
4. What kind of sales tax do you pay on a purchase?
17.5% sales tax - but it is usually built into the price you see, not added on at the till like in the US
5. Do you get hit for having a sports car (like our gas guzzler penalty)?
Yes, through CO2 based charging, and increased fuel consumption (and therefore tax on fuel).
I have two views on this...
First, people cannot be too concerned about the price of fuel, because they still waste so much. I was stopped at temporary traffic lights today, which had a very long phase. I turn off the engine at temporary traffic lights (I always have, not just recently), but no-one else did, so I can only assume that they still feel that fuel is still cheap enough to waste a total of about four minutes' worth of engine idling.
Second, people cannot be too concerned about the price of fuel, because the place is still COVERED in cars. In real terms, motoring has never been cheaper, and people have never whinged so freely. The capital cost of a car is at an all-time low, yet the value of a car, in terms of its capability, and long-term reliability has never been higher. I remember the Singer Gazelle that my grandfather bought new in 1969, for a capital cost equivalent to around £10k today. That may seem a bargain, but the thing was terribly badly built and suffered significant rust damage within 18 months. It was scrapped at the age of four-and-a-half because of rust, having done 50k miles, with major services every 6k miles. He did not mind because that car was typical of its day. A £10k car today (e.g. Mini One) will be good for ten years and 150k miles, and will be serviced maybe five times in its life.
Frankly, I would love to see the cost of motoring increase dramatically, back to the real cost it was when I passed my driving test in 1981. I have long said cars are not transport, they are toys; and all these folks in their Nissans and Hayundais are missing the point, and spoiling the fun I have with my toy Z4. So, if £4/litre gets them off the road, good riddance to them, and so much the better for me. It will just take me back 25 years!
A
PS: Some of the above is sarcastic, some is ironic, and some is neither.
First, people cannot be too concerned about the price of fuel, because they still waste so much. I was stopped at temporary traffic lights today, which had a very long phase. I turn off the engine at temporary traffic lights (I always have, not just recently), but no-one else did, so I can only assume that they still feel that fuel is still cheap enough to waste a total of about four minutes' worth of engine idling.
Second, people cannot be too concerned about the price of fuel, because the place is still COVERED in cars. In real terms, motoring has never been cheaper, and people have never whinged so freely. The capital cost of a car is at an all-time low, yet the value of a car, in terms of its capability, and long-term reliability has never been higher. I remember the Singer Gazelle that my grandfather bought new in 1969, for a capital cost equivalent to around £10k today. That may seem a bargain, but the thing was terribly badly built and suffered significant rust damage within 18 months. It was scrapped at the age of four-and-a-half because of rust, having done 50k miles, with major services every 6k miles. He did not mind because that car was typical of its day. A £10k car today (e.g. Mini One) will be good for ten years and 150k miles, and will be serviced maybe five times in its life.
Frankly, I would love to see the cost of motoring increase dramatically, back to the real cost it was when I passed my driving test in 1981. I have long said cars are not transport, they are toys; and all these folks in their Nissans and Hayundais are missing the point, and spoiling the fun I have with my toy Z4. So, if £4/litre gets them off the road, good riddance to them, and so much the better for me. It will just take me back 25 years!
A
PS: Some of the above is sarcastic, some is ironic, and some is neither.
I think that people are really starting to feel the cost of fuel now, more so than ever.
One of the biggest downsides of fuel costs is that people still take their cars, but they drive slower and take 30secs to accelerate up to 40mph*. I think that will continue and organisations like the AA and RAC will continue to enocurage people to drive like sloths, don't use the brakes, and coast around everywhere. Traffic levels will remain the same, but we'll all be going much slower. Because let's face it, even driving somewhere at 25mph is better than taking the bus.
*next time you're in a 40 limit, count how long it takes the first car to reach 40, you'll be amazed. And we're still obsessed with the 0-60 times of our cars, it's crazy.
One of the biggest downsides of fuel costs is that people still take their cars, but they drive slower and take 30secs to accelerate up to 40mph*. I think that will continue and organisations like the AA and RAC will continue to enocurage people to drive like sloths, don't use the brakes, and coast around everywhere. Traffic levels will remain the same, but we'll all be going much slower. Because let's face it, even driving somewhere at 25mph is better than taking the bus.
*next time you're in a 40 limit, count how long it takes the first car to reach 40, you'll be amazed. And we're still obsessed with the 0-60 times of our cars, it's crazy.
I'm still waiting for the UK to introduce carpool/HOV lanes like the US - that will be much more effective at reducing congestion than the odd 2p fuel price increase.
If the government was genuinely interested in reducing pollution, rather than making money, it would have introduced effective measures years ago.
There is no real alternative out there - I took the bus the other day (yuk) and it cost me £4 ($8) for what is a 20 minute journey in the car. My 3.0 costs less than that in fuel FFS. My train season ticket to commute into London is around £5k per year ($10,000).
If the government was genuinely interested in reducing pollution, rather than making money, it would have introduced effective measures years ago.
There is no real alternative out there - I took the bus the other day (yuk) and it cost me £4 ($8) for what is a 20 minute journey in the car. My 3.0 costs less than that in fuel FFS. My train season ticket to commute into London is around £5k per year ($10,000).