Syria

[teamemmenracing]

It was an appalling decision and one we will come to regret.

It's what happens I'm afraid when you weaken a state through a coalition government.

Every one is entiltled to their opnion and I respect that .......

Right or wrong I believe that the government should do what its electorate wants ..... and it appears that the majority says no .....

Blair made the comment that "God will judge" him .......
one reporter commented ..... "actually, its the people that voted for you that will judge you" and to that I agree whole heartedly agree .......

 

[Spikey]

Ive been trying not to get involved in this but......

Very pleased with the outcome of the vote - getting sick of successive UK governments thinking they can act as the worlds policemen - whilst not considering the impact on UK lives.

Also - who is keeping a tally of how much it cost us for munitions and other kit for Iraq and Afghanistan - it would be interesting to see how this stacks up against the national debt!

Treated like mushrooms - and influenced by a media with short memories!

 

[Izice]

not proven facts, but always worth reading another position

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

I've said it from the start....carefull now, you'll be classed as a conspiracy theorist

Good decision but it but delays the mission.
The gap is to be filled with more propaganda and more false flag attacks.

 

[bigdog]

It's funny but in a sad way. Both Obama and VP Biden were calling Bush II a war monger about Iraq in 2007. Biden even called for Bushes impeachment. Fast forward to now. Obama drew a line in the sand. And said if Syria crossed it. There would be hell to pay (my words) Gee! That sounds familiar. Wonder where he got that idea. Obama backed himself into a corner on that one. What of Biden? I think Obama has locked him in the basement of the White House with very strong tape across his mouth. Because if I were a reporter. I surely would ask VP Biden about all the impeachment talk in 2007 and why he is so strangely silent all of a sudden. It would be very entertaining though to watch Biden back pedal and try to make excuses for the boss.

Truth is. We have a very short memory. Yes. The west (England & France) did meddle in the middle east starting at the treaty of Versailles. Then in the 1940's-1950's Britain and France handed the hot potato to the US. We stupidly accepted it. Same thing with Vietnam. Remember, It was a French colony that was under siege by the communist north. They (France) called for Americas help. The French then promptly left town. The US government certainly didn't handle that one very well. One can simply look at middle east history prior to Versailles and plainly see that the Arabic peoples have been treating each other in a vial way for thousands of years now. But as most folks ignore or don't care about history. Most think the west ruined the middle east in the last century. No matter what any one did or what their intention was. The middle east was always a trouble spot. In the past it never was a problem because they tended to just kill each other. But with the discovery of oil, and the wealth it brought, Easy world wide travel. The Arabic peoples inability to get over their hatred of one another and the interference of the flow of oil this caused. The trouble ended up compounding exponentially.

The compassionate part of me. Feels bad for the suffering.

The apathetic part of me tells me that the middle east has had thousands of years to work out their internal problems and have refused to do so. Mostly based on tribal and religious hatred of their fellow middle east countrymen. And as far as I can tell. The pale face westerners are not going to be able to (nor can they) solve those issues either.

 

[123BillyB]

The whole situation is bigger than Syria alone.

For generations Western and Eastern powers have tried to have a foothold in one Middle Eastern country or the other for numerous reasons be it oil or a strategic presence.

Now let us not forget that Syria is backed by Russia and China who are major powers in the scheme of things and the whole protectorate thing is much like the Mafia protection rackets. If Russia and China do not flex their muscles and back Assad, they will lose face with all the other country's that they are protectorates of as the rest will say we might as well side with the Western powers as the Eastern powers have bark but no bite when push comes to shove.

That is basically the reason why this has gone on for so long and hence why even after Obama's "Red Line" speech of last year, the US has still not jumped in as if they do, they are taking on Russia and China. Remember when came to Iraq, the US didn't care what the UN had to say as it was them/coalition against Iraq only and not Iraq backed by another superpower.

In a way this is a similar situation the the old Cuban Missile Crisis where Russia was forced to show strength against America if they wanted to retain Cuba as their strategic foothold in that region.

If this really was about "the people", the West would be doing more to resolve the situation is Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Egypt to name a few global hotspots as people are dying their on a daily basis and Western powers are somewhat responsible for what is going on there but using the guise of "International Law", they want to get a foothold in Syria as then they will be closer to Iran.

If breaking International Law was such a crime that demanded immediate attention, how comes the West does not retaliate against Israel with air strikes each time they ignore yet another UN resolution with their constant land grabs?

Bottom line is Assad can basically do what he wants as to take him on would mean taking on Russia and china so until Russia and China are behind any invasion, it wont happen.

 

[jimmybell]

I'm glad democracy prevailed, that's how it should work.

However - I disagree with the vote outcome.. it's ridiculous. Miliband is an absolute twunt - his amendments to the proposal were exactly what the proposal already demanded, and after them being 'added' they then voted against the proposal anyway... he's making a political stunt and stand out of a humanitarian crisis that's costing thousands of lives and he should be ashamed.

Part of the proposal was to consider military action if proof was provided. The vote was not for military action, or war (as some on this thread seem to think?). The proof provided to the joint national security committee was basically "Assad bombed civilians with chem weapons". The body of evidence is so great and damning, and there's so much contributing evidence that we can say with almost certainty that it was Assad. Short of Assad coming out and saying "i bombed my civilians, here is some proof" how will we ever achieve 100% confirmation?

This was a proposal to intervene in a humanitarian crisis, exactly the same way we did with Libya. this is not to invade Syria or put UK troops into harms way. I really fear that the mistakes of past labour governments and their falsification of intelligence is now causing us to be over cautious and demand 100% evidence when no court of law would ever expect this to pass judgement on a crime - so we choose to stand idly by and let innocent people get bombed with incendiarys, white phosphorus and whatever chemical (mustard gas?! we'll find out this weekend.) they dropped on school children.

In the end the whole thing is bo**ocks, no politicians have any experience of regime change, rebuilding countries post war, the effects of intervention etcetc ... whilst we do have hundreds of experts at this in our armed forces, who are still training and cleaning up the mess of Afghan. The last time we were faced with a "do we engage our armed forces" situation, Intelligence agencies told the PM "evidence was sketchy at best", and he informed the house of commons "the evidence is 100% certain that Saddam has WMDs".

On a side note, if Assad didn't actually launch these weapons against his people, would it be such a bad thing if we had launched tactical strikes against their locations anyway? Then he, or any Al-Qaeda elements capturing Syrian bases couldn't use them regardless. The end goal is still achieved - less Chem Weps in Syria to hurt innocents.

 

[Izice]

I'm glad democracy prevailed, that's how it should work.

However - I disagree with the vote outcome.. it's ridiculous. Miliband is an absolute twunt - his amendments to the proposal were exactly what the proposal already demanded, and after them being 'added' they then voted against the proposal anyway... he's making a political stunt and stand out of a humanitarian crisis that's costing thousands of lives and he should be ashamed.

Part of the proposal was to consider military action if proof was provided. The vote was not for military action, or war (as some on this thread seem to think?). The proof provided to the joint national security committee was basically "Assad bombed civilians with chem weapons". The body of evidence is so great and damning, and there's so much contributing evidence that we can say with almost certainty that it was Assad. Short of Assad coming out and saying "i bombed my civilians, here is some proof" how will we ever achieve 100% confirmation?

This was a proposal to intervene in a humanitarian crisis, exactly the same way we did with Libya. this is not to invade Syria or put UK troops into harms way. I really fear that the mistakes of past labour governments and their falsification of intelligence is now causing us to be over cautious and demand 100% evidence when no court of law would ever expect this to pass judgement on a crime - so we choose to stand idly by and let innocent people get bombed with incendiarys, white phosphorus and whatever chemical (mustard gas?! we'll find out this weekend.) they dropped on school children.

In the end the whole thing is bo**ocks, no politicians have any experience of regime change, rebuilding countries post war, the effects of intervention etcetc ... whilst we do have hundreds of experts at this in our armed forces, who are still training and cleaning up the mess of Afghan. The last time we were faced with a "do we engage our armed forces" situation, Intelligence agencies told the PM "evidence was sketchy at best", and he informed the house of commons "the evidence is 100% certain that Saddam has WMDs".

On a side note, if Assad didn't actually launch these weapons against his people, would it be such a bad thing if we had launched tactical strikes against their locations anyway? Then he, or any Al-Qaeda elements capturing Syrian bases couldn't use them regardless. The end goal is still achieved - less Chem Weps in Syria to hurt innocents.

American and the Israels both used white phosporous in Falluja and in Lebanon...what makes that ok? with no public outcry 1000's are burnt to the bone...where were you then?

Yes it would be a bad thing to launch attacks as about 80% of the UK population dont want it.

 

[original guvnor]

about 80% of the UK population dont want it.

That's actually not what the polls have suggested. They suggested 50% were opposed, 25% in favour with the rest probably too disinterested if the "great" British public is anything to go by.

 

[Stuart Truman]

On a side note, if Assad didn't actually launch these weapons against his people, would it be such a bad thing if we had launched tactical strikes against their locations anyway? Then he, or any Al-Qaeda elements capturing Syrian bases couldn't use them regardless. The end goal is still achieved - less Chem Weps in Syria to hurt innocents.

So weaken one side to allow the other side, which is widely considered to be al-Qaeda infiltrated now to take over? Where's the sense in that.

The Arab countries don't want us in there, let the Arab League sort it out. We are not the world's police.

 

[Spikey]

Yeh funny how we choose which atrocities to ignore and which we absolutely have to get involved in!

I'm sorry but Camerons initiative was complete self interest on Britains political radar as usual, if this was anything to do with humanitarianism we wouldn't be selling these idiots overseas the weapons in the first place.

Example of double standards - Saudi Arabia - shocking humanrightsrecord overlooked because they prop up our ailing defence industries - wake up people!

The news tonight is verging on propaganda - how could we dare not to support our American 'brothers' is the theme!

It's a dirty game we play and the veil is sometimes very thin indeed

 

[original guvnor]

In all my life I cannot ever remember feeling more ashamed to be British than I do today. Rage doesn't begin to even scratch the surface for what happened in the House of Commons last night, orchestrated by that despicable excuse for a human being, Ed Milliband.

As John Kerry's speech touched on this evening, and as more evidence continues to emerge, we will see what a disgraceful,shameful evening it was for Britain. The political fallout of this in the coming years will come back to haunt Milliband.

I won't say another word on this thread.

 

[Carol M]

not proven facts, but always worth reading another position

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

I've said it from the start....carefull now, you'll be classed as a conspiracy theorist

Good decision but it but delays the mission.
The gap is to be filled with more propaganda and more false flag attacks.

You give yourself away as a conspiracy theorist by using the words, 'sheeples' and talking about false flag attacks.

 

[Spikey]

.... It ain't all bad - at least we can have a discussion like this without someone visiting you in the wee small hours!

I wish we were all as concerned when the Israelis were kicking Palestinians out of their homes, placing them in fenced camps, then giving their homes to other Israeli families to have as their own - essentially just repeating part of what had been done to them by the Nazis - and what did Britain do?

Nothing - so there are plenty of shameful times in our recent past that we should be disgusted about - we just tend to pick and choose what we remember.

 

[Izice]

not proven facts, but always worth reading another position

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

I've said it from the start....carefull now, you'll be classed as a conspiracy theorist

Good decision but it but delays the mission.
The gap is to be filled with more propaganda and more false flag attacks.

You give yourself away as a conspiracy theorist by using the words, 'sheeples' and talking about false flag attacks.

How does talking about False flag attacks dont make you a conspiracy theorist?

Sheeple is not a conspiracy theory term...its a word used to describe the herd mentality of people who believe what they fed by the main stream media without questioning or thinking for themselves......much like you i feel.

 

[Carol M]

You give yourself away as a conspiracy theorist by using the words, 'sheeples' and talking about false flag attacks.

How does talking about False flag attacks dont make you a conspiracy theorist?

Sheeple is not a conspiracy theory term...its a word used to describe the herd mentality of people who believe what they fed by the main stream media without questioning or thinking for themselves......much like you i feel.

And why do you feel that about me?
Why do you think I don't question anything the media puts out or I'm incapable of thinking for myself?

 

[Izice]

.... It ain't all bad - at least we can have a discussion like this without someone visiting you in the wee small hours!

I wish we were all as concerned when the Israelis were kicking Palestinians out of their homes, placing them in fenced camps, then giving their homes to other Israeli families to have as their own - essentially just repeating part of what had been done to them by the Nazis - and what did Britain do?

Nothing - so there are plenty of shameful times in our recent past that we should be disgusted about - we just tend to pick and choose what we remember.

Yeah exactly, the hypocrisy is shocking.
The silence by the main stream media to those events is defeaning............but when events can be used to further a cause.

"Whoever controls the media, controls the mind".

 

[Izice]

not proven facts, but always worth reading another position

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/

I've said it from the start....carefull now, you'll be classed as a conspiracy theorist

Good decision but it but delays the mission.
The gap is to be filled with more propaganda and more false flag attacks.

You give yourself away as a conspiracy theorist by using the words, 'sheeples' and talking about false flag attacks.

Do you not read your posts before you post?

 

[Carol M]

You'll have to excuse me here. Clearly being female and blonde I don't understand what you mean. Also I can't think for myself to work it out, so can you explain in laymans terms exactly what you are getting at?

 

[TitanTim]

I really think its time the USA and the European Union invaded all of the Middle East and take it over, we need to make Britain Great again with an Empire

Tim.

P.S. Carol I like you being female and blonde

 

[123BillyB]

Isn't it ironic that the one major European country that has abstained from getting involved in all these US led wars is currently the one with the strongest economy... i.e. Germany.