Swap wheels and insurance?

[Raj_UK]

The insurance world has gone mad. Current insurer will not cover our mini if we add bonnet stripes - it’s okay if the car was specced with them from factory.

They wouldn’t cover me painting the wheels black, but changing alloys is an approved modification. They backed down when I asked how they could tell the difference between me buying black ones or refurbing mine black?

As a laugh I asked them about a baby on board sticker. They said they’d check and get back to me

 

[pvr]

As a rough guess, I suspect that 75% + of the Z4 drivers are uninsured than if they are with the bad insurance companies. Retrofitting sat navs, dash covers etc would be classed as a mod then ...

 

[Paulr]

Look like I was wrong then: http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=109940

Pretty unbelievable though.

It was the HID mod that took it over the edge though, not the wheels. I was told by my insurer (admiral) that the dash cam, as long as it was just a plug-in one, was not a modification.

 

[Ewazix]

Look like I was wrong then: http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=109940

Pretty unbelievable though.

It was the HID mod that took it over the edge though, not the wheels. I was told by my insurer (admiral) that the dash cam, as long as it was just a plug-in one, was not a modification.

Seriously, read through some of the hundreds of adjudications,
http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/
wheels alone were sufficient in some cases. The ombudsman frequently states that it's harsh but if the insurance company's T&Cs say they will not insure modified cars without disclosure then they have no choice but to uphold the policy cancellation and claim rejection. It's a trap and an absolute scam!

 

[Gaffa22]

It's a trap and an absolute scam

Is it really ? Some insurance companies maybe but.

The real trouble is it's caused by the minority, the chavs who modify vehicles and make them dangerous, drive like idiots then crash and kill someone.
Unfortunately the insurance company's tar everyone with the same brush.
I work for one of the UK's largest insurers, so does my daughter, she actually works in motor claims. You would not believe some of the bullshit people come out with about claims. And the number of fraudulent claims is unbelievable.

At the end of the day the rules are simple, you must inform the company of any known modifications from standard, if you comply with the rules you wont have any problems.

 

[pvr]

You have to agree that the UK insurance industry is fundamentally flawed though and takes any method to get out of paying. Europe based industries insure the car, not the driver, that would solve the uninsured driver issue for a great part but the industry does not want that.

Also, they cause the fraudulent cases due to their rules. In Europe, when you claim, you lose a bit of no claim and that is it. In the uk you get hammered so badly on any car that you are insured on that fraud is almost the only solution. And the final insult is on the raising of premiums based on non events. You get caught speeding- your premium rises. That only happens in the UK, again a perfect setup to encourage fraud. In the UK you get punished before an event, in Europe afterwards. Very unjust system ( won’t even go in home or health insurance which is also a big rip off.) Get burgled, your premium goes up. Insurance companies don’t understand probability calculations.

 

[jabber]

You have to agree that the UK insurance industry is fundamentally flawed though and takes any method to get out of paying. Europe based industries insure the car, not the driver, that would solve the uninsured driver issue for a great part but the industry does not want that.

Also, they cause the fraudulent cases due to their rules. In Europe, when you claim, you lose a bit of no claim and that is it. In the uk you get hammered so badly on any car that you are insured on that fraud is almost the only solution. And the final insult is on the raising of premiums based on non events. You get caught speeding- your premium rises. That only happens in the UK, again a perfect setup to encourage fraud. In the UK you get punished before an event, in Europe afterwards. Very unjust system ( won’t even go in home or health insurance which is also a big rip off.) Get burgled, your premium goes up. Insurance companies don’t understand probability calculations.

You should try travel insurance for people with health problems, I was ill ( nothing to do with my health problem ) and had to cancel a holiday just had a letter from the insurance company asking me to phone them to and I quote. To enable them to consider a renewal!

 

[Ewazix]

It's a trap and an absolute scam

Is it really ? Some insurance companies maybe but................. At the end of the day the rules are simple, you must inform the company of any known modifications from standard, if you comply with the rules you wont have any problems.

Accepting your points about chavs and rampant fraud, the "trap and scam" I'm referring to is the industries refusal to publish what is or isn't a modification. There is no logic or justification for treating things like a dash-cam, swapping wheel styles/colour or having a tow bar fitted as in any way affecting the safety or performance of a vehicle. In short people don't know where they are with this until a claims agent looks for a loophole.

I've got aftermarket glass on a wing mirror and Textar pads rather than BMW ones? The springs are standard height aftermarket replacements that if you check carefully have a slightly different wire diameter? I'm looking at the roof motor being moved to the boot, are these mods? WE can debate these, but nobody can or will say for sure until a claim is rejected and it goes to the ombudsman. A simple definition of 'modification' is required until then it's an industry scam that's using the lack of clarity and a compliant ombudsman for it's own ends :thumbsdown:

 

[MACK]

This is always a minefield and you do wonder what actually ends up at the ombudsman. I have to admit i haven't looked into this in any shape or form but I'm willing to bet the ombudsman isnt publishing full details, just a short summary or even a sentence on each judication.
For example a claim refused for a change of wheels. On the face of it this could mean anything from swappingon an e85 your 18 inch 108s for 107s or even putting 17 inch winter wheels on. It could also mean that you've gone and stuck some great big weighty 20 inchers with completely the wrong offset. If I was an insurance assessor I wouldnt have an issue with the former but I'd certainly take umbrance with the later. In deed the former I might not even realise that they weren't standard.
I guess the insurers agruement would be that the 20 inchers would effect the handling and braking of the vehicle. But perhaps the most important point would be that a driver who's likely to do such a mod is also likely to be someone who drivers more aggressively etc.

Then theres the plethora of options these days. How are you supposed to know what's standard, what's an option and what's happened post factory. Especially on newer vehicles and niche vehicles. I remember when Bmw launched their Mini, they boasted tgat there was something like 100,000 combinations of colours/options and that was best part of 20 years ago.
Zed wise take my 05 plate 3.0. It now sports clear headlights and M Sport seats. Both of which were factory options on an 05 plate but mine had neither and were retrofitted by me.
But if I was buying it now as it currently stands how would a typical buyer be reasonably expected to know that? Sames true really of my eibachs and B4s. Black oem looking springs and oem equivalent shocks that lower the car subtly over standard M sport suspension. Again is it reasonable for buyer to notice? I'd argue the same would be true on an e89 that's been retro fitted with M sport bumpers and seats for example.

That said insurance assessors aren't all knowing oracle's either and I guess alot of them miss subtle mods all the time as well. Im willing to bet the reality is it's the real in your face stuff that gets pulled. The stuff theat the assessors say stands out like a sore thumb and a owner can't really claim they didn't know anything about.

 

[jabber]

I get a discount from my insurer for having a dash cam fitted

 

[Ewazix]

http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/

The Ombudsman is publishing the full Monty on cases here http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/

Just to clarify, the Ombudsman finds for the Insurance in every case I dip-sampled, simply because term and conditions are that the Insurance co will not insure a car with ANY modification unless its notified. The question of safety, performance or whether or not it's a factory option is apparently irrelevant. We (consumers) are wide open to rejection and you can read and weep over the absurdity of some of the cases. Carpets fitted in a van being one!

 

[mr wilks]

http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/

The Ombudsman is publishing the full Monty on cases here http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/


Just to clarify, the Ombudsman finds for the Insurance in every case I dip-sampled, simply because term and conditions are that the Insurance co will not insure a car with ANY modification unless its notified. The question of safety, performance or whether or not it's a factory option is apparently irrelevant. We (consumers) are wide open to rejection and you can read and weep over the absurdity of some of the cases. Carpets fitted in a van being one!

Best declare those colour coded 108s

 

[MACK]

http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/

The Ombudsman is publishing the full Monty on cases here http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/


Just to clarify, the Ombudsman finds for the Insurance in every case I dip-sampled, simply because term and conditions are that the Insurance co will not insure a car with ANY modification unless its notified. The question of safety, performance or whether or not it's a factory option is apparently irrelevant. We (consumers) are wide open to rejection and you can read and weep over the absurdity of some of the cases. Carpets fitted in a van being one!

Best declare those colour coded 108s

And I better declare my led interior light bulbs!

 

[Brasseye]

My E89 came with 17" wheels (la turbines) and runflats.
The Gent had owned one before and found the 17" with runflat a great combination, good turn in with comfort.
And I am never shocked at the price of good quality rubber.

 

[Ewazix]

http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/

The Ombudsman is publishing the full Monty on cases here http://ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/


Just to clarify, the Ombudsman finds for the Insurance in every case I dip-sampled, simply because term and conditions are that the Insurance co will not insure a car with ANY modification unless its notified. The question of safety, performance or whether or not it's a factory option is apparently irrelevant. We (consumers) are wide open to rejection and you can read and weep over the absurdity of some of the cases. Carpets fitted in a van being one!

Best declare those colour coded 108s

Yes, another 'grey' area :wink:

 

[ronk]

Bmw seem to emphasise the safety aspect of runflats - yet many on here have swapped to conventional rubber - the car is then non standard - same for winter rubber - should we be telling them of these changes and potentially getting an admin charge at the start of every winter and springtime tyre change?

 

[Ewazix]

Bmw seem to emphasise the safety aspect of runflats - yet many on here have swapped to conventional rubber - the car is then non standard - same for winter rubber - should we be telling them of these changes and potentially getting an admin charge at the start of every winter and springtime tyre change?

Short answer appears to be a definite 'yes' according to the Ombudsman's site. Funny thing is when I informed my insurance about non-RFT's they didn't seem to know what I was on about, then later confirmed it was OK, no cost. Again it's nothing to do with safety or performance, just simply not being as factory standard and not declared = potential voiding of policy.

 

[ronk]

Buying new and up speccing the car with all the toys at the front saves on the annual insurance premium - but then bandits only give any payouts on a basic spec car!

Heads they win tails we loose

 

[pvr]

THink the winter tyre saga and insurance incompetence was put to bed after a previous outcry a few years ago as even the village idiot knew the insurance industry were being complete idiots.

 

[ronk]

even the village idiot knew the insurance industry were being complete idiots.

But profiting at the same time!

Everyone wants a slice of our cash - even our after tax cash.
The insurance premium we pay potentially has the brokers 15% mark up then the insurance premium tax added to the revenue .