Suspension - finally

Tony, I think you are making the right decision based on your 95% road usage. When I was doing the research, although I'm sure the Clubsports are the mutts-nuts on track, even KW GmbH advised me that unless my car was completely track-focused not to buy them.

Are you also going to fit a RTAB limiter kit and the Vibra-Technics engine mounts whilst you're at it? Those relatively cheap items would really enhance the total performance of your new suspension. :thumbsup:
 
Sounds good, probably the kit I'd go for (or the ACS exdos has). What was the best price you could find?

That said, did one of the guys on her not have an ngoing rattling issue after fitting his Bilstein kit?
 
gwatson said:
What was the best price you could find?
CA-Int said £1800, but would have to check as they were going through a price review. Still waiting for the return call.

Could get them for £1650 from Schmeidmann, but was warned about 'grey' imports and having to send them back to Denmark if I have an issue.

Price direct was £1900 delivered to my spanner monkey.
 
exdos said:
Are you also going to fit a RTAB limiter kit and the Vibra-Technics engine mounts whilst you're at it? Those relatively cheap items would really enhance the total performance of your new suspension. :thumbsup:
Engine mounts have already been done, and the RTAB are Powerflex ones.

Most of the other stuff will be OE (spring pads, bushes, etc.) - but have a set of Rogue top mounts that I bought in preparation.
 
another interest clubsport trait I've noticed is when the car is on uneven ground, a front wheel ( dependant on the dip it sits in) sometimes just hang in mid-air where your normal type setups have enough "travel" for his not to happen. its very strange to turn back to your car thats parked on un even ground to see one of the wheels completely off the floor while the car sits perfectly square . i watched a gt3rs leaving the car park at the same time doing exactly the same thing, i have no idea what causes it.
 
I'm a little late to this thread. mmm-five, if you're not fully committed to Bilsteins, you're welcome to a passenger ride in my ///M (KW Clubsports and camber plates; RE rear top mounts; H&R ARBs; Turner RTAB limiters; VT competition engine mounts). A quick drive down a London street will leave you convinced if you can tolerate such a set up on a daily driver. White lines will shake the teeth from your head and pot holes break your spine, but it's all worth it on smooth twisty tarmac and track days.
I would hapily drive it everyday - then again I wish I could drive my Westie every day too :wink:
 
Thanks for the offers of test drives, but the order was placed this morning, and the kit will be here in 7-10 working days :thumbsup:

Fitting will be done towards the end of March or April due to my spanner monkey's busy schedule (all those e34 M5s take up a lot of his time) :thumbsdown:

The only way I'll know if it's the kit for me is to do a few months of mixed driving on them :driving:

Even if they're not exactly how I want them, they'll be a dam sight better than 130,000 mile old OE suspension :P
 
Just my 3 cents worth - I have just bought Bilstein PSS10's and had them fitted. They are SUPERB! I've had a few other bits and pieces fitted as well (more when I post...) which has completely changed the nature of the car for the better - Exdos' threads are well worth a read - I've followed his advice a digs really worked out well! :thumbsup:
 
Interesting conundrum about dampers & the m-style cars, what's the verdict on the same cars but talking bout springs?
Be good to know of an option other than the prone to snapping bmw option :o
Regards
 
Smartbear said:
Interesting conundrum about dampers & the m-style cars, what's the verdict on the same cars but talking bout springs?
Be good to know of an option other than the prone to snapping bmw option :o
Regards
I don't know how prevalent the snapped spring issue really is, as mine haven't been changed since I bought the car over 6 years/120k miles ago.

All the aftermarket springs I've seen (H&R, Eibach, etc. - i.e lowering spring) reduce the ride height which is not something I really want to do with the amount of speed 'cushions' where I live. Don't know whether there's any aftermarket spring that just replicated the OEM height?

At least with a full aftermarket kit I can keep the ride height as close to stock as possible - and may even use some thicker spring pads (or some other method) to ensure that with the small amount of rake I'm adding I won't compromise the car's town drivability.
 
Any update on this mmm-five, I'd be interested to know how effective your changes were?
 
dgm said:
Any update on this mmm-five, I'd be interested to know how effective your changes were?
Still waiting for a slot in my spanner monkey's schedule.

Unfortunately he's very busy trying to sell up (houses, not business) and move to the southwest.

Have already had to delay my first 'Ring trip of the year and a Cadwell trackday. Hoping to have it done by the end of April now.
 
mmm-five said:
Thanks for all your help guys.

I've decided to keep it fast-road focused and go for the Bilstein B16/PSS10. Don't see the need for adjustable top mounts, or really aggressive lowering (want to keep rear close to normal height and have a slight lowering of the front). I'm guessing that I'll notice a huge difference no matter what I'd fitted as the stuff on the car is well overdue for replacement, and the week it'll be off the road will be plenty of time to replace all my mounts/bushes/linkages/arms/etc. so that it will be like new.

I now have a direct link to the UK sales/tech office of ThyssenKrupp Bilstein in Leicester, and will be buying direct (via my spanner monkey - who's done a few thousand laps of the 'Ring with his Bilstein contact in a professional capacity).

It's not the cheapest method of buying them (i.e. about £150 more than I could have got them for), but I won't have to worry about warranty arguments as we'll be working with Bilstein direct.


:thumbsup: Good solid choice. The kit is specific to the Z4 M Coupe. Obviously I am biased but I did a lot of "on the ground" research as opposed to only surfing the web's. Results from seasoned veteran teams were the unapologetic: Anything with rigid mounts is a no go for road car NVH will eventually drive you mad and break your car unless you weld in the right re-inforcements. For eg Prosche took many years and a lot of money to get a GT3 right. Anything KW is overpriced will break and made from cheap well marketed stuff (I don't quite agree with that part).

In my albeit limited experience with a pro set up (geometry reinforcements etc.) of the PSS10 is that it is perfect for fast road and a few track days per year. I run my car all year in all conditions and its comfortable enough (-15 to 25% on OEM) no noises, and just about hard enough for track days (running on road tyres). 2 years since installed 6 or 7 trackdays, a lot of miles on country roads and motorway rain or shine. Zero maintenance zero advisory.

Lastly, don't worry too much about lowering. Mine is close to how low it gets for a road car and living in a paved town with plenty of "cushions" speeping bastards etc. Its fine. JUut watch for the nose when parking from the front againt the pavement: the answer is yes the car is too low and no you won't sqeeze and extra inch of that enormous long nose top of the pavement.
 
Babw said:
I would consider Bilsteins to be a road only coilover at least as they're setup spring rate wise from factory.

I would consider KW V3 more track capable but better road manners than Clubsports.

Intrax are very much track biased with a fully coilover rear and all the downsides of the maintenance etc.

If you're planning some track time personally I would discount the Bilsteins, they make great road suspension but you will be disappointed for track work.

Don't Ohlins make a R&T kit for the Z4? (Sorry to add even more to the mix!)

What is in your opinion the reason the Bilstein B-16/PSS-10 will disappoint on track? Ok the KW Clubsport is better on track, but calling the PSS-10 as disappointed for track work is not true in my opinion.
 
exdos said:
Tony, I think you are making the right decision based on your 95% road usage. When I was doing the research, although I'm sure the Clubsports are the mutts-nuts on track, even KW GmbH advised me that unless my car was completely track-focused not to buy them.

Are you also going to fit a RTAB limiter kit and the Vibra-Technics engine mounts whilst you're at it? Those relatively cheap items would really enhance the total performance of your new suspension. :thumbsup:
I have RTAB limiters fitted and Vibra Tech engine mounts… The engine mounts make a great difference and are a absolutely great addition. The RTAB limiters is a mod that did not feel to make a lot of difference in my opinion.
 
I've already have some poly-bushes on the rear, and have fitted the engine mounts I bought from beedub.

Got Rogue top-mounts to fit when the suspension gets replaced, and the refresh will also include the replacement of any other suspension bush/component that's past its best.
 
exdos said:
If you've read anything I've previously written about the Z4MC's OEM suspension, I've always said that the front is too soft and the rear is too stiff. The front springs are made from 11mm diameter wire and the rear is made from 19mm diameter wire. I'm sure that you'll find that any aftermarket suspension will redress this gross imbalance. The ACS Racing has front spring of 14mm and the rear is 16mm, so you can see that in the case of the ACS at least, the front suspension is stiffened and the rear is softened. I think that the the KW Clubsports use similar wire diameters.

Although the springs remain the same with any specific adjustable suspension system, such as KWV3, the adjustment of the dampers between the softest and firmest of the settings coupled with the differences between the front/rear settings, makes a huge difference to the ride and handling. Although some of the high end suspension dampers have a total of, say, 30 or more "clicks" in the range for adjustment between softest and hardest settings, in reality, to make any noticeable changes, you'd be making adjustments of at least 3 clicks at a time, to have any initial noticeable change, so in effect, this is essentially the same as adjusting a damper with a range of 10 clicks by one click at a time. My KWV3s have 14 clicks in their range, whereas the ACS Racing has 9 clicks. I haven't found the difference to be a problem with the ACS Racing because both KWV3 and ACS racing suspensions have enough of a range to give a very noticeable difference between softest and firmest settings with a good transition between each setting.

If I were you, I'd ask Beedub or BMWZ4MC if you could have a ride as passenger on the roads in their cars with the Clubsports fitted to see how they feel before I spent my cash.

I also have Rotax Max go-kart and I certainly wouldn't want suspension as stiff as that on the roads, it's bad enough on any little bumps on track!

I know suspension settings and handling also has to do with personal taste... For example; Exdos puts the settings of his Bilstein harder when driving on the ring then me. He likes it better and maybe it also has to do with the fact that he has a stiffer coupe then my roadster? Eitherway; that is the great thing about the Bilstein PSS-10, you can make small suspensions adjustments really fast between street and track (and personal preference). IMO the Bilstein PSS-10 is a street suspension that is also suitable on track. This is how I made my Z4M...it's a very nice street car that is also suitable and very fun (and fast) on the occasional trackday and ring visit. I tried to make a car that is the best of both worlds (street <-> track). My Z4M comes on a track (95% Nurburgring) around 10 times a year and the rest of the time it's a street car (reason why I got a roadster)... For a car that sees 80% track time I would probably go for some more track orinetated suspension like a KW Clubsport, Intrax and also a rollcage, Recaro bucket seats, semilsick tyres, etc…

For me it was a big upside that the Bilstein PSS-10 can be set-up a little higher. My Z4M is now at exactly the same ride height as with my OEM dampers and Eibach springs. I would not want it any lower.
 
Got linked this cheap german supplier for the today: http://www.ego-autotuning.de/bilstein-b16-gewindefahrwerk-48-141635-bmw-z4-m-e86.html

that's £1400 at today's rates.. bargain?!
 
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