Strut Brace and PS2's

M

mason storm

Active member
I'm thinking of getting an M soon (not fully made my mind up yet) but I read in Evo that changing tyres from Conti's to PS2's and adding a trut brace makes a big difference. I will be looking at 2007-2008 cars will some still have the Conti's and will most have the strut brace fitted by previous owners?
 
Yes to the Conti's (there's nothing inherently wrong with them) and no to the strut brace as most owners haven't modified their cars.

And don't forget that the car reviewed in Evo had 19" CSL wheels with lower profile tyres - which is what I think changed the front end grip more than just the PS2s or strut brace :headbang:
 
Changed my RFTs to PS2s and yes the ride quality and handling were significantly improved. Also have a strut and firewall brace (Strong Strut - group buy on the old Forum) but in reality I'm not sure I can detect any difference, but looks good with the bonnet up. :roll:
 
mmm-five said:
Yes to the Conti's (there's nothing inherently wrong with them) and no to the strut brace as most owners haven't modified their cars.

And don't forget that the car reviewed in Evo had 19" CSL wheels with lower profile tyres - which is what I think changed the front end grip more than just the PS2s or strut brace :headbang:
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I changed from standard 18" ///M wheels with Contis to 19" CSLs with Vreds, and found a reduction in both front and rear end grip as a consequence. This is manifest as a tendency to understeer in at-the-limit corners, and a much greater propensity for wheel spin under rapid acceleration. The situation did improve after the first 1000 miles or so, but the car certainly handles modestly less well than previously. Fortunately, metered throttle application counters understeer rather nicely :D I've kept my original wheels for track use, and accept the minor handling deterioration the rest of the time with the CSLs as they look so pretty :oops: I might try different tyres next time as the improvement after the first 1000 miles certainly suggests that ultimately it is they which dictate overall grip levels (as might be expected).
 
BMWZ4MC said:
mmm-five said:
Yes to the Conti's (there's nothing inherently wrong with them) and no to the strut brace as most owners haven't modified their cars.

And don't forget that the car reviewed in Evo had 19" CSL wheels with lower profile tyres - which is what I think changed the front end grip more than just the PS2s or strut brace :headbang:
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I changed from standard 18" ///M wheels with Contis to 19" CSLs with Vreds, and found a reduction in both front and rear end grip as a consequence. This is manifest as a tendency to understeer in at-the-limit corners, and a much greater propensity for wheel spin under rapid acceleration. The situation did improve after the first 1000 miles or so, but the car certainly handles modestly less well than previously. Fortunately, metered throttle application counters understeer rather nicely :D I've kept my original wheels for track use, and accept the minor handling deterioration the rest of the time with the CSLs as they look so pretty :oops: I might try different tyres next time as the improvement after the first 1000 miles certainly suggests that ultimately it is they which dictate overall grip levels (as might be expected).
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What pressures are you running. I have the same on my car and find the grip to be more than adequate for road use and I find it impossible to get the wheels spinning in the dry except from a standing start in first. I did Anglesey on quite a warm day as well and again they were excellent. Initially I had the pressures too high and was not pleased with the ride but reduced them to 30/32 ("goes out and checks").

P
 
Cheers. I'm running around 30-32 psi also. The wheel spin tends to be only in first on dry roads, and occasionally in second if it's a little damp. It's the increase in understeer that is more apparent, but even this is only around the limits of traction. It's very possible that the car is simply more skittish when cornering on poor quality UK roads - I've not taken it on the track with the CSLs yet. I might experiment with pressures and see what happens.
 
I don't have issues with the change to CSLs/Vreds and it runs fantastically on the track. I only have my original wheels on old contis to compare against but I'm much happier with the grip and general feel on the new wheels. I never wheelspin unless I intend to...in fact I'd say the Vreds are so sticky so you have to be really trying to do that. Not that I endorse that sort of thing of course!
 
Csls, Ps2 and strut brace, i can honestly say my car grips way better than with the 18s and contis, ive also had a set of vreds and the ps2 grip was noticeably higher imo, andy also noted this when he rode with my car on the track (his car has vreds).

my traction control will flash up to third in the dry ;-)
 
I'm not at all unhappy with the handling, even when comparing it with a 600kg Westfield, but sharper turn in would be nice! It's interesting that so many of you have found no deterioration in handling with 19" wheels and stiff-walled tyres on shoddy UK roads. I think I need to perform a back-to-back comparison of 18"/Contis with CSLs/Vreds now that the Vreds have "rubbered in" - perhaps I'm just getting braver in the bends and asking more of the car than I used to when I first got it and had the original setup :D
 
mason storm said:
Hmm mixed opinions then, has anyone tried PS2's on 18's and noticed the difference
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Most of the extra grip that the 19" option provides is probably down to the wider tyre profile, and the sharper turn in is due to the smaller sidewall (less flex).

The PS2s available in 18" sizes are not available in the same load index as the standard tyres. Not that anyone seems to take any notice of that though - due to the fact that the Z4MR/Z4MC/M3 Saloon/Coupe use the same tyre and are different weights anyway.

My conjecture would be that in 18" form there would not be any significant advantage over the standard Continentals - and if you were looking for an 18" upgrade then go for the new Conti SportContact 5P, Hankook Ventus S1 Evo, or Bridgestone Potenza S-001 which all 'beat' the PS2 in Autobild magazine's ultra-high performance test of 19" wheels on a C63 AMG and SportAuto magazine's ultra-high performance test of 19" wheels on a Focus RS, as did their 2009 18" test on a 135i. The Hankook looks an interesting proposition, and it's about 25% cheaper than the others.

However, please take all these tests as highly subjective, as no two magazines ever come up with exactly the same results as some drivers prefer precision over ultimate grip, and others don't.

BTW, the Vredestein was tested at the same time and the findings were:
SportAuto said:
The Ultrac Sessanta convincingly wins the aquaplaning test but then disappoints in wet handling by offering little feedback through the wheel and strong understeer.
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Conti SportContact 5P
contisportcontact_5_p_en,property=original.jpg


Hankook Ventus S1 Evo
VentusS1evoK107.jpg

Bridgestone Potenza S-001
Bridgestone-Potenza-S001.jpg
 
My first Z4M came with PS, and outperformed the Conti's which were on my second Z4M. Now I'm at PS2's, and will never put anything else on.

I had Vredesteins on one of my previous cars, and they were worse than Dunlops. And Dunlops suck compared to Michelin PS and PS2.

My wife's car came with Bridgestone Potenza RE050. They are poor in rain.
 
Ive just stuck 18's back on with conti's. Much better handling than 19's and im amazed people have found 19's better for handling. Unless this is just road handling, and not giving it some real corners to get into.

Normally people with M3's or high performance cars always change down a size for track days etc, as the grip level is better with 18's, but use 19's as they look better.

Each to their own though, and never tried PS2's if im honest, but love Conti's and would use them all the time, road or track.
 
wooter said:
My first Z4M came with PS, and outperformed the Conti's which were on my second Z4M. Now I'm at PS2's, and will never put anything else on.

I had Vredesteins on one of my previous cars, and they were worse than Dunlops. And Dunlops suck compared to Michelin PS and PS2.

My wife's car came with Bridgestone Potenza RE050. They are poor in rain.
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Thanks for your feedback, yes i have found Potenza's poor in the rain. I guess if I get a Z4M that has contis I will change to PS2's when the contis need changing and see if I prefer them.
 
wooter said:
I had Vredesteins on one of my previous cars, and they were worse than Dunlops. And Dunlops suck compared to Michelin PS and PS2.
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It depends on which Dunlop. The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is a significantly better tyre than the PS2 (but doesn't seem to be available in the UK). It is also an Extreme Performance tyre, compared with the PS2 only being a Maximum Performance tyre. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the_michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/dunlop_direzza_sport_z1_star_spec_page_11

I think the UK is a bit short changed by Dunlop not selling the tyre there, but it is a benchmark tyre for performance enthusiasts, where it is available.
 
Extreme Performance and Maximum Performance is just marketing babble.

I'm not familiar with the Direzza Sport Z1, but both the SPSport9000 and SPSportMaxx do not compare to the Michelin Pilot Sport in the rain.

The problem with Michelin's PS tires is that you have to go rediculously fast before they lose grip, and when they do they do it in big style.
 
wooter said:
Extreme Performance and Maximum Performance is just marketing babble.

I'm not familiar with the Direzza Sport Z1, but both the SPSport9000 and SPSportMaxx do not compare to the Michelin Pilot Sport in the rain.

The problem with Michelin's PS tires is that you have to go rediculously fast before they lose grip, and when they do they do it in big style.
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The Dunlop tyres you mention don't rate very well in tyre surveys and tests, whereas the Direzza Sport Z1's do rate very highly, more like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyre but with much better durability and rain performance. The PS2 is now a generation or two behind the best tyres, perhaps the new PS3 will regain some of the lost ground?. In my experience the PS2 is better than the OEM Continentals on the Z4M (based on comparison of them both on an M3), but the grip from the Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is significantly better in the dry and at least as good in the rain, I can launch much harder in 1st gear without wheelspin than with the OEM Contis.
 
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