Here, have a good read: Strut tower brace data
Strut bar advice
- Thread starter 4Z WMB
- Start date
20ducks said:
Is there a version in English?
dgm said:
Front and rear bush kit £240
Adjustable top mounts £180
It's not really gonna break the bank and anyone with the slightest DIY skills can fit the parts themselves.
Even if a strut brace helped to stiffen up the front end which I'm sure it will do slightly, the whole point is that its purpose is to help "lock in" those precious settings you,ve struggled so hard to achieve. Why would you want to lock in the factory settings? They're terrible.
The other point I'm making is that the suspension rubbers are so soft that making any adjustments or trying to brace the strut tops is pointless because underneath everythings moving around and flexing.
It's a case of doing things in the right order. Firstly fix the problem, secondly get everything set up the way you like it and thirdly lock it in place.
What is likely to move more, your chassis/body with all it's existing bracing or huge blocks of soft rubber?
20ducks said:
Good read, in most cases, but we're talking the difference on a Z4 w/ 2 factory cross braces and what benefit of the additional strut brace on our Z4's has..
On my 3 Series I notice a huge difference on body roll/cornering/overall handling/etc. w/ a single strut bar and I'm sure I can upgrade to max out the most w/ my suspension, but for a cheap way to do it, it suffices..
The question remains, how much of a difference does it make on a Z4, and I'm saying I can't feel it, so it really makes zero sense to add it, in my book, but to each their own..I just found out the hard way and it set me back some $$'s..
I took mine off the Alpina and put it on my 330. As far as I could make out I was just carrying around extra weight on the Alpina. Unfortunately I can't tell you if it made a difference on th 330 because I did a few other mods at the same time. In theory though it should be more useful on the 330 because it didn't have any kind of bracing to start with.
It would be interesting to find out just how much force is necessary to bend the chassis/body. The suspension bushes can be bent and flexed by hand.
I think a good test would be to check if your bonnet/hood is being crushed or buckled by the inner wings flapping around. Somehow I doubt it!
I was over at Simpson Motorsport yesterday and had a look at the race cars that were there. Out of 7 cars including two F40's two GT2 + 3 Porsche's, a V8 Star, an Australian Porsche racer and a BMW 2002 Rally car, only the 2002 had any form of strut brace. Being a rally car it was built like a tank. Makes you wonder why none of the others bother with one though.
It would be interesting to find out just how much force is necessary to bend the chassis/body. The suspension bushes can be bent and flexed by hand.
I think a good test would be to check if your bonnet/hood is being crushed or buckled by the inner wings flapping around. Somehow I doubt it!
I was over at Simpson Motorsport yesterday and had a look at the race cars that were there. Out of 7 cars including two F40's two GT2 + 3 Porsche's, a V8 Star, an Australian Porsche racer and a BMW 2002 Rally car, only the 2002 had any form of strut brace. Being a rally car it was built like a tank. Makes you wonder why none of the others bother with one though.
4Z WMB said:
On my car, '05 3.0i with sport suspension and non-RFTs, on your scale, I'd rate it a 2. Noticeable, but not dramatic.
That said, there are definitely other things you can do to improve the handling to greater effect. Coil overs, sway bars, and non-RFT's will probably get you the biggest increases. But, the strut brace takes five minutes, compared to the other changes which most of us (myself included) could not not do on their own.
unless you are tracking your car, you probably won't notice the difference .. also it depends on what type of suspension you have doesn't it?? like doube wishbone vs. macpherson strut??
also totally agree with curtis about the bushings and all those rubber pieces, i used to have a car where i swapped out the shock and springs and used aluminum upper pillow ball mounts vs the stock ones ... HUGE difference in "locking" settings in place as curtis says
but i have this ACS bar lying around off of my previous car, so just wondering if it would fit as yes, i admit, it would be for eye candy purposes and would cost me no more money since I already have that bar ... but if anyone wants to buy it off of me lmk
also totally agree with curtis about the bushings and all those rubber pieces, i used to have a car where i swapped out the shock and springs and used aluminum upper pillow ball mounts vs the stock ones ... HUGE difference in "locking" settings in place as curtis says
but i have this ACS bar lying around off of my previous car, so just wondering if it would fit as yes, i admit, it would be for eye candy purposes and would cost me no more money since I already have that bar ... but if anyone wants to buy it off of me lmk
E85
The aim of a strut brace is to help reduce chassis flex which would have an adverse effect on your settings regardless of suspension type. In certain circumstances a certain degree of flex might be desirable though depending on how you've set the car up. Similar examples can be seen in some race cars which don't use rear anti roll bars at all or have the facility to disconnect it if desired. Not the same thing as a brace but an example of another area where things can be allowed to flex and move because under certain circumstances there's something to be gained from it such as better rear end grip in the wet.
The point is that if your going to try and "lock in" your set up, first make sure you've got a good set up and your not going to have one as long as your suspension and steering is flapping around underneath you!
It would be interesting to find out how many people who fit a strut brace have bothered to find a good setting that they're trying to maintain or whether they're simply trying to preserve the useless factory "safe" setting.
chad5k1
I love technical discussions too!
The aim of a strut brace is to help reduce chassis flex which would have an adverse effect on your settings regardless of suspension type. In certain circumstances a certain degree of flex might be desirable though depending on how you've set the car up. Similar examples can be seen in some race cars which don't use rear anti roll bars at all or have the facility to disconnect it if desired. Not the same thing as a brace but an example of another area where things can be allowed to flex and move because under certain circumstances there's something to be gained from it such as better rear end grip in the wet.
The point is that if your going to try and "lock in" your set up, first make sure you've got a good set up and your not going to have one as long as your suspension and steering is flapping around underneath you!
It would be interesting to find out how many people who fit a strut brace have bothered to find a good setting that they're trying to maintain or whether they're simply trying to preserve the useless factory "safe" setting.
chad5k1
I love technical discussions too!
Couldn't agree more Curtis.
When I set up the lancia - it was a track prepared car - we did everything possible short of a roll cage to lock in the settings to say it was a challenge when the chassis is so weak would be an understatment!! But when we got it sorted it was great, you could completely tailor the way the car drove for the driver or the conditions with just a few tweaks.
Your comment about the rear ARB being a great example. In the dry it was essential and on it's hardest setting most of the time, but the same settings in the wet (or even having it at all) made it nothing more than a tool for having fun - four wheel drifts at every corner! :lol:
When I set up the lancia - it was a track prepared car - we did everything possible short of a roll cage to lock in the settings to say it was a challenge when the chassis is so weak would be an understatment!! But when we got it sorted it was great, you could completely tailor the way the car drove for the driver or the conditions with just a few tweaks.
Your comment about the rear ARB being a great example. In the dry it was essential and on it's hardest setting most of the time, but the same settings in the wet (or even having it at all) made it nothing more than a tool for having fun - four wheel drifts at every corner! :lol:
Curtis,
Well said!! I agree that MOST cars out there that are modded aren't done with a whole lot of R&D behind it. But it's still fun to mess around with the car.
I know this is not exactly the same as your example, but I remember having full adjustable coilovers before and went to the track in the rain and started with my regular dry track settings. Car really wanted to oversteer, went in the pits, adjusted the rear shocks to lover stiffness setting and has traction for the rest of the day!! So I know what you mean by "softer is better in the rain"
Reminds me about my friend's explanation regarding corner weighting. Many people get adjustable coilovers so they can lower their car to look good when the real benefits come from being able to corner weight your car with the driver in the car. I would guess that 9/10 people with adjustable coilovers have never put their car on a scale to measure the 4 corners of the car.
Well said!! I agree that MOST cars out there that are modded aren't done with a whole lot of R&D behind it. But it's still fun to mess around with the car.
I know this is not exactly the same as your example, but I remember having full adjustable coilovers before and went to the track in the rain and started with my regular dry track settings. Car really wanted to oversteer, went in the pits, adjusted the rear shocks to lover stiffness setting and has traction for the rest of the day!! So I know what you mean by "softer is better in the rain"
Reminds me about my friend's explanation regarding corner weighting. Many people get adjustable coilovers so they can lower their car to look good when the real benefits come from being able to corner weight your car with the driver in the car. I would guess that 9/10 people with adjustable coilovers have never put their car on a scale to measure the 4 corners of the car.
E85 said:
Quite correct! Plus they lower the car and don't realise that all they're geometry settings just got screwed up and need readjusted.
First time I put my car on the scales I was amazed how far out the corner weights were with the standard suspension. 50/50 weight distribution my ass!
all show ....no go.... 
Curtis said:
well, from what i understand, most cars who say they have 50/50 are actually quite close, difference come from whether the 50/50 is when the car is bone dry (ie. no fluids in the car whatsoever) or is it measured with oil in engine and full tank of gas?? of course, when you put a driver in the car (as the car would never be without one) the weight gets all out of proportion
BUT, my pt is that from what i understand, most cars can be measured as 50/50 with whatever amount of fluid in the car in terms of front and rear weight distribution ... if you were to weigh the car from left to right, it almost NEVER is 50/50 when weighing THAT way
the Miata is known as one of the most neutral cars you can buy (stock vs stock of course) and that car isn't 50/50 left to right, but very close to 50/50 front to back